[ Mirda ] Remunzian mate-seekers vs Veolian Slave Owners
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[ Mirda ] Remunzian mate-seekers vs Veolian Slave Owners
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:42 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
((OOC: This thread is for the class action law suit started by the Silver Forests of Remunzia against the Veolian Slave Owners. Since this thread will be used for all official communication related to the process, I will use titles to separate the different parts.
The court case is public, and anyone is allowed to enter the audience, written documents are publicly available as well. But as normal for court cases it is not allowed to speak out of term. To improve the roleplay potential of this story line, I will most likey open up the possibilty of submitting an Amicus Brief by other worlds.))
The attorney-general of the Veolian Commonwealth, Lord Mahan Yayavad, wishes it to be known that the arrival of three mate-seekers from the Silver Forests of Remunzia has given the Silver Forests of Remunzia, representing the interests of their citizens, concrete grounds to bring charges in a bilateral class-action civil suit to determine the cybernetical status of slavery.
The attorney-general further wishes it to be known that the ruling in this civil case will not be one of adjudication, but of philosophical nature. Should the charges of the Silver Forests of Remunzia hold true, the verdict will form the principal input for a continuation of the case in the Supreme Court of the Veolian Commonwealth to determine the validity of the laws on slavery in the commonwealth.
The charges and demands brought forward by the Silver Forests of Remunzia are:
Seeing how slave ownership is created by artificial legal constructs, seeing how it clearly enhances the ability of the owner beyond what they are naturally capable of, including but not limited to giving them the ability to be in more than one place at the same time, and seeing how this ability gives them an artificial and unfair advantage in terms of reproduction over individuals lacking such artificial enhancements, the Silver Forests of Remunzia holds that slave ownership should be interpreted as effectively equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement.
In accordance with Veolian law therefore, the Silver Forests of Remunzia demands that all Veolian slave owners be immediately and irreversibly sterilized, and that any other fines, limitations and penalties normally applicable to cyborgs and cybernetically enhanced individuals who use cybernetics to go beyond their natural biological abilities also be applied to them.
As it is clear that this matter will require debate and careful consideration within the Veolian courts and legal system, the Silver Forests of Remunzia additionally seeks that during the various trials and legal procedures, all slave owners be forbidden from reproducing so as to ensure that no illegal children, potentially created by unfair and artificial means, are brought into effect until this matter has been decided upon with finality.
The attorney-general of the Veolian Commonwealth lets it be known that the demand that all slave owners are forbidden from reproducing is unreasonable and shall not be taken into consideration. The attorney-general does not see reason to infringe upon this fundamental natural rights of citizens of the Veolian Commonwealth and posits that, in accordance with the overarching culture of justice within the Union and the far-reaching consequences of this case, the defendants are assumed not at fault until the contrary is proven.
In accordance with Veolian law, the case will be handed over to the County Court of Jala Khaira for discovery. If the case proceeds to court, the case will be handed over to the High Court of Jala Khaira due to the noble status of plaintiff and defendants. At High Court, the case will be brought before a judge befitting the status of plaintiffs and defendants.
Presiding judge: Judge Khōja Avasthar,
Case number: JK-CC141795
As a matter of administration, the county court asks the proper legal representation of both parties to make itself known to the court.
In the first steps of the discovery phase of the process, the county courts seeks to establish the extent of the class against which charges are brought.
((OOC: At the moment, only the plaintiffs and their attorneys, and the defendants and their attorneys are allowed to communicate in this case. Both should provide statements recorded in written form. They may include holovid footage if desired. Legal representatives of both worlds should make themselves known so the courts know how to address them.
Note: You can ignore the 'court-approved' thing, that's just a formality. Any reasonable definition of the class will be approved by court.))
The court case is public, and anyone is allowed to enter the audience, written documents are publicly available as well. But as normal for court cases it is not allowed to speak out of term. To improve the roleplay potential of this story line, I will most likey open up the possibilty of submitting an Amicus Brief by other worlds.))
Preliminaries
The attorney-general of the Veolian Commonwealth, Lord Mahan Yayavad, wishes it to be known that the arrival of three mate-seekers from the Silver Forests of Remunzia has given the Silver Forests of Remunzia, representing the interests of their citizens, concrete grounds to bring charges in a bilateral class-action civil suit to determine the cybernetical status of slavery.
The attorney-general further wishes it to be known that the ruling in this civil case will not be one of adjudication, but of philosophical nature. Should the charges of the Silver Forests of Remunzia hold true, the verdict will form the principal input for a continuation of the case in the Supreme Court of the Veolian Commonwealth to determine the validity of the laws on slavery in the commonwealth.
The charges and demands brought forward by the Silver Forests of Remunzia are:
"Charges by the Silver Forests of Remunzia"
The Silver Forests of Remunzia holds that Veolian slavery laws are an artificial legal construct which is supported by and dependent upon enforcement by the governmental apparatus. Acknowledging that there are certain financial requirements to owning a slave, the Silver Forests of Remunzia nonetheless holds that the ability to keep slaves is not one that is biologically possessed by individuals, but rather one that has been created by artificial means, that is supported by and dependent upon an external source of power that is beyond the abilities of any individual slave owner and that the ownership of a slave is therefore not representative of the actual biological abilities of that slave owner.Seeing how slave ownership is created by artificial legal constructs, seeing how it clearly enhances the ability of the owner beyond what they are naturally capable of, including but not limited to giving them the ability to be in more than one place at the same time, and seeing how this ability gives them an artificial and unfair advantage in terms of reproduction over individuals lacking such artificial enhancements, the Silver Forests of Remunzia holds that slave ownership should be interpreted as effectively equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement.
In accordance with Veolian law therefore, the Silver Forests of Remunzia demands that all Veolian slave owners be immediately and irreversibly sterilized, and that any other fines, limitations and penalties normally applicable to cyborgs and cybernetically enhanced individuals who use cybernetics to go beyond their natural biological abilities also be applied to them.
As it is clear that this matter will require debate and careful consideration within the Veolian courts and legal system, the Silver Forests of Remunzia additionally seeks that during the various trials and legal procedures, all slave owners be forbidden from reproducing so as to ensure that no illegal children, potentially created by unfair and artificial means, are brought into effect until this matter has been decided upon with finality.
The attorney-general of the Veolian Commonwealth lets it be known that the demand that all slave owners are forbidden from reproducing is unreasonable and shall not be taken into consideration. The attorney-general does not see reason to infringe upon this fundamental natural rights of citizens of the Veolian Commonwealth and posits that, in accordance with the overarching culture of justice within the Union and the far-reaching consequences of this case, the defendants are assumed not at fault until the contrary is proven.
In accordance with Veolian law, the case will be handed over to the County Court of Jala Khaira for discovery. If the case proceeds to court, the case will be handed over to the High Court of Jala Khaira due to the noble status of plaintiff and defendants. At High Court, the case will be brought before a judge befitting the status of plaintiffs and defendants.
County Court of Jala Khaira: Discovery
Presiding judge: Judge Khōja Avasthar,
Case number: JK-CC141795
As a matter of administration, the county court asks the proper legal representation of both parties to make itself known to the court.
In the first steps of the discovery phase of the process, the county courts seeks to establish the extent of the class against which charges are brought.
- The county court asks the plaintiffs to provide a clear definition of this class. Additionally, the plaintiffs may provide statements that elaborate upon the charges brought forward, and to optionally provide statements that show how their legally protected interests are infringed upon.
- The county court asks the defendants, once a court-approved definition of the class is present, to provide a statement outlining their position in reaction to the charges brought against them, and to optionally elaborate upon their current situation with regards to the owning slaves.
((OOC: At the moment, only the plaintiffs and their attorneys, and the defendants and their attorneys are allowed to communicate in this case. Both should provide statements recorded in written form. They may include holovid footage if desired. Legal representatives of both worlds should make themselves known so the courts know how to address them.
Note: You can ignore the 'court-approved' thing, that's just a formality. Any reasonable definition of the class will be approved by court.))
Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:31 pm
"Your honour,"
the Remunzian senator stepped forward, her stiletto heels echoing on the stones. She had come to the Veolian commonwealth herself though obviously she wasn't here as part of the legal team, but rather as a figurehead to show how seriously the Silver Forests of Remunzia took this matter.
A dark brown faux-leather corset gathered up the various layers of her slender green skirts, which seemed to be leaves and vines woven together into an excessively elaborate outfit. Her long gloves disappeared into the short sleeves of her gown and parts of her hair had been braided into a crown with hair flowing out behind her like a green waterfall hiding birds instead of fish. Yellow and brownish eye-shadow gave her a more natural look than the war-paint that had featured on her face during the anti-slavery discussion.
"We, the plaintiffs," she read from her declaration "seek injunction, damages and any other applicable penalties as per Veolian law, against the class defined as follows:
The class applies to all Veolian citizens, within and outside of Veolian territories, for so far as these can reasonably be construed as falling under Veolian law, as well as any non-Veolian citizens who likewise fall under Veolian law such as but not limited to refugees, travellers and visitors, as well as any additional individuals whom would under normal circumstances fall under the perview and limitations of Veolian law, as defined in standard intergalactic and Veolian practice.
The class should furthermore be limited to those individuals whom own more than zero slaves, be it fractionally or completely, that is who have the ultimate and exclusive right conferred by a lawful claim or title to enjoy, occupy, possess, rent, sell, use, give away or destroy their slaves, notwithstanding the restrictions placed upon such by the law, as well as those who have more than zero slaves in their possession, be it fractionally or completely, that is, who have dominion over and exclusive control and us of the slave resulting from the fact of holding it (whether rightly or wrongly) in their power.
However, this limitation is not to exclude any individuals whom hold such ownership or possession by proxy or through intermediary means, such as, but not limited to, an individual who has placed their slave property in a trust, corporation or other legal entity which de facto leaves them as the owner of said slave, for as far as this is applicable within Veolian law, as well as any individuals who may be co-owners, time-sharers or engaging in any other scheme of shared ownership.
The class is further to exclude those individuals and their direct immediate family, that is relationships within the direct line as well as spouses and parents, but not cousins or more distant relatives not in their direct line or married directly to them, whom by birth and personal ability, have secured sufficient means both de jure and de facto to enforce the physical ownership and possession of said slaves, in so far as said enforcement can be reasonably argued to be complete and total in the territories governed by the Veolian Commonwealth and where enforcement can be said to result from personal accomplishment and position rather than being reliant upon a force which is not de facto and de jure under their personal control, notwithstanding that it is not necessary for them to personally carry out such enforcement, as long as resources employed to ensure such enforcement are under their sovereign control, with no higher power holding sovereign authority above them."
the Remunzian senator stepped forward, her stiletto heels echoing on the stones. She had come to the Veolian commonwealth herself though obviously she wasn't here as part of the legal team, but rather as a figurehead to show how seriously the Silver Forests of Remunzia took this matter.
A dark brown faux-leather corset gathered up the various layers of her slender green skirts, which seemed to be leaves and vines woven together into an excessively elaborate outfit. Her long gloves disappeared into the short sleeves of her gown and parts of her hair had been braided into a crown with hair flowing out behind her like a green waterfall hiding birds instead of fish. Yellow and brownish eye-shadow gave her a more natural look than the war-paint that had featured on her face during the anti-slavery discussion.
"We, the plaintiffs," she read from her declaration "seek injunction, damages and any other applicable penalties as per Veolian law, against the class defined as follows:
The class applies to all Veolian citizens, within and outside of Veolian territories, for so far as these can reasonably be construed as falling under Veolian law, as well as any non-Veolian citizens who likewise fall under Veolian law such as but not limited to refugees, travellers and visitors, as well as any additional individuals whom would under normal circumstances fall under the perview and limitations of Veolian law, as defined in standard intergalactic and Veolian practice.
The class should furthermore be limited to those individuals whom own more than zero slaves, be it fractionally or completely, that is who have the ultimate and exclusive right conferred by a lawful claim or title to enjoy, occupy, possess, rent, sell, use, give away or destroy their slaves, notwithstanding the restrictions placed upon such by the law, as well as those who have more than zero slaves in their possession, be it fractionally or completely, that is, who have dominion over and exclusive control and us of the slave resulting from the fact of holding it (whether rightly or wrongly) in their power.
However, this limitation is not to exclude any individuals whom hold such ownership or possession by proxy or through intermediary means, such as, but not limited to, an individual who has placed their slave property in a trust, corporation or other legal entity which de facto leaves them as the owner of said slave, for as far as this is applicable within Veolian law, as well as any individuals who may be co-owners, time-sharers or engaging in any other scheme of shared ownership.
The class is further to exclude those individuals and their direct immediate family, that is relationships within the direct line as well as spouses and parents, but not cousins or more distant relatives not in their direct line or married directly to them, whom by birth and personal ability, have secured sufficient means both de jure and de facto to enforce the physical ownership and possession of said slaves, in so far as said enforcement can be reasonably argued to be complete and total in the territories governed by the Veolian Commonwealth and where enforcement can be said to result from personal accomplishment and position rather than being reliant upon a force which is not de facto and de jure under their personal control, notwithstanding that it is not necessary for them to personally carry out such enforcement, as long as resources employed to ensure such enforcement are under their sovereign control, with no higher power holding sovereign authority above them."
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:47 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
After the class of the class action was officially approved by the court, the defence became more organized.
The lawyer Pratinidhi Niriba, from the high-end firm Dasturā, Kānūla & Bladruk, after the named partners Dasturā Mihatnar, Kānūla Lialina and Orpomog Bladruk, has been engaged as the lead defence attorney. He is a well-acclaimed lawyer specialising in complex civil cases, but has recently lost a significant case for an important member of House Shebi. Rumour has it that this case will make or break his further career in law.
"Your honour,"
The defence attorney takes a single look at the Remunzian senator, and opens his statement in fluent galactic.
"The defendants, organized as the class set out by the plaintiffs and approved by the court, challenge the claim by the plaintiffs on several grounds. First and foremost, the defence challenges the plaintiffs' claim that the ownership of a slave is not representative of the actual biological abilities of that slave owner. Following from this, the defence further claims that slavery laws are not an artificial legal construct dependent upon enforcement by the governmental apparatus, but instead codification of restrictions on the natural abilities of the defendants.
Additionally the defence holds that, without conceding the first position, that abilities ascribed by law to individuals or groups of individuals cannot be made out to be equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement. The defence takes the position that contrary to the charges, the power that enforces the laws of the Veolian Commonwealth is neither external nor beyond control of the defendants, but instead holds that the defendants are the power responsible for enforcing said laws and that this power is theirs by birthright and personal achievement.
Furthermore, the defence holds that any unfairness experienced by the plaintifss, in terms of advantage of reproduction over individuals not owning slaves, stems not from laws within the Veolian jurisdiction but from the restrictiveness of the laws in other jurisdictions the plaintiffs are subjected to, that is, the laws of the Silver Forests of Remunzia in specific."
He took a moment to let the position sink in.
"Your honour,
The defence does not see an option for an amicable settlement at the current moment, and is ready to proceed from the discovery phase to the high courts at your leisure."
The attorney wore a smug smile as he delivered a final piece of his statement, directing his attention towards the Remunzian senator and legal team, knowing that he was stretching the rules of conduct of the court:
"In a non-legal capacity, and on grounds of compassion for the plaintiffs' apparent distress, the defence wishes to bring to attention the ease of immigration into the Veolian Commonwealth, and with it the increase in permissiveness with regards to the expression of the plaintiffs' natural abilities."
The lawyer Pratinidhi Niriba, from the high-end firm Dasturā, Kānūla & Bladruk, after the named partners Dasturā Mihatnar, Kānūla Lialina and Orpomog Bladruk, has been engaged as the lead defence attorney. He is a well-acclaimed lawyer specialising in complex civil cases, but has recently lost a significant case for an important member of House Shebi. Rumour has it that this case will make or break his further career in law.
"Your honour,"
The defence attorney takes a single look at the Remunzian senator, and opens his statement in fluent galactic.
"The defendants, organized as the class set out by the plaintiffs and approved by the court, challenge the claim by the plaintiffs on several grounds. First and foremost, the defence challenges the plaintiffs' claim that the ownership of a slave is not representative of the actual biological abilities of that slave owner. Following from this, the defence further claims that slavery laws are not an artificial legal construct dependent upon enforcement by the governmental apparatus, but instead codification of restrictions on the natural abilities of the defendants.
Additionally the defence holds that, without conceding the first position, that abilities ascribed by law to individuals or groups of individuals cannot be made out to be equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement. The defence takes the position that contrary to the charges, the power that enforces the laws of the Veolian Commonwealth is neither external nor beyond control of the defendants, but instead holds that the defendants are the power responsible for enforcing said laws and that this power is theirs by birthright and personal achievement.
Furthermore, the defence holds that any unfairness experienced by the plaintifss, in terms of advantage of reproduction over individuals not owning slaves, stems not from laws within the Veolian jurisdiction but from the restrictiveness of the laws in other jurisdictions the plaintiffs are subjected to, that is, the laws of the Silver Forests of Remunzia in specific."
He took a moment to let the position sink in.
"Your honour,
The defence does not see an option for an amicable settlement at the current moment, and is ready to proceed from the discovery phase to the high courts at your leisure."
The attorney wore a smug smile as he delivered a final piece of his statement, directing his attention towards the Remunzian senator and legal team, knowing that he was stretching the rules of conduct of the court:
"In a non-legal capacity, and on grounds of compassion for the plaintiffs' apparent distress, the defence wishes to bring to attention the ease of immigration into the Veolian Commonwealth, and with it the increase in permissiveness with regards to the expression of the plaintiffs' natural abilities."
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:55 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
Judge Khōja Avasthar sat silently as he heard and approved the class definition, and the initial position of the defence.
"I hereby close the discovery phase."
"During discovery the court has found ample reason for this case to proceed to court. This case will be handed over to the high court, as is befitting of the noble status of plaintiffs and defendants.
The High Court of Jala Khaira will inform the parties to the case of the date and time of the first hearing."
The Judge sounded slightly relieved, but did his utmost best not to let this be heard in his voice. His final statement concludes the court season for the discovery phase. Both the plaintiffs and defendants will most likely take the time between this season and the first hearing of the actual case to prepare their arguments.
((OOC: I will post the opening of the hearing soon™. In the meantime, I would like to say again that this case is public, and as such media coverage is possible from news sources all over the Union!))
"I hereby close the discovery phase."
"During discovery the court has found ample reason for this case to proceed to court. This case will be handed over to the high court, as is befitting of the noble status of plaintiffs and defendants.
The High Court of Jala Khaira will inform the parties to the case of the date and time of the first hearing."
The Judge sounded slightly relieved, but did his utmost best not to let this be heard in his voice. His final statement concludes the court season for the discovery phase. Both the plaintiffs and defendants will most likely take the time between this season and the first hearing of the actual case to prepare their arguments.
((OOC: I will post the opening of the hearing soon™. In the meantime, I would like to say again that this case is public, and as such media coverage is possible from news sources all over the Union!))
Veolian Commonwealth » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:38 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
High Court of Jala Khaira: First Hearing
Presiding judge: High Judge Tarkasangata Vicārasīla,
Case number: JK-HC76899
A few days ago both parties to the "Remunzian Mate-seekers vs Veolian Slave Owners" case were informed of the date and location of the first formal hearing, as well as the presiding judge for the case.
High Judge Tarkasangata Vicārasīla is an established judge known for his calm demeanour, expertise in property and real-estate related matters, and adherence to traditions. In the past, he has been critical of media-seeking behaviour, especially in frivolous cases or cases brought against high nobility. But in recent years he has been known to allow an amount of grandstanding from the attorneys, especially if the case will have value as precedent. High Judge Tarkasangata Vicārasīla was appointed to his position thirty-one years ago by Lady Khaw Rohana.
The first formal hearing of the case is in the large High Court building near the centre of Jala Khaira. A large number of people has gathered outside the court. The crowd consists of three types of people. Protestors, both for and against slavery, can be seen carrying signs and shouting out to be heard. Fans of the mate-seekers have come to get a glimpse of their idols, and a lot of holo reporters for large networks and the independent press.
The House Khaw militia is present to make sure that the protests do not become a riot, but their presence seems to do little with regard to the loud shouting and cheering when the parties to the court case arrive. The house militia makes sure that there is a path to allow those that are here for the hearing to easily walk from their vehicles to the court house stairs, where they can address the press, if they want to. The presence of this much holonet reporters and other press provides a golden opportunity to issue a statement to the press, and to make sure that the whole planet, and large parts of the Union, know what is going on, and what the stakes are!
((OOC: I intend this post as a way of introducing the characters and representatives, reporters, etc., that are present at the hearing itself. The two parties to the court case (a delegation form the Remunzians, and the representative of the veolian slave owners), go in first.
After the two parties have arrived everyone should feel to introduce a political observer, representative, reporter, jedi, etc., that has travelled to Mirda to observe the case first hand!))
Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:34 pm
The Silver Forests of Remunzia had sent a large delegation, including - in collaboration with the Veolians - some of their own security people to help protect against the crowd, and several veolian lawyers were also part of the entourage.
The first to appear was Evinar, dressed in a green sleeveless shirt seemingly made of leafs, while leaving his large arm muscles exposed. Green gloves covered his hands with which he signed autographs of his adoring fans, as well as handing out flowers to many attractive Veolian ladies, each with a card with his contact information attached. His dark green breeches and boots were in camouflage style, giving the suggestion of a warrior and he wore a green, leafy cloak to match. His hair was interwoven with the many flowers he gave out, and butterflies seemed to be drawn in with them surrounding him.
Aliania was next, dressed much less flamboyantly in a simple green and brown dress that ran down to the ground, vines woven around her body, arms and skirt from a band around her her head, blooming with small flowers in a multitude of colours. Though as a Remunzian she easily stood out, amongst her people she might be considered demure but one detail was far from shy - instead of living animals, she had brought a plushie, a white bunny-rabbit with cute embroidered eyes. Showing it to the crowd that had gathered to oppose slavery, a roaring cheer of support could be heard, the symbolism of the white rabbit ringing true especially amongst the Twi'leks who had come in from the Slave Rebellion.
Illora-Veleanor had stepped away from the Remunzian plant-based styles and had been dressed up in traditional Veolian nobles gown of high quality and make, no doubt in an organized effort by the Remunzian delegation to play up her status as a noble. Her sleeveless dress barely covered her midrif, several strategically placed holes showing off her skin, a hidden zipper in the back which went all the way up to the base of her skull. Despite the holes, the dress becoming solid at the skirt, which ran tightly along her hips and legs all the way to the ground, revealing just a peek of what seemed like a pair of insanely high, slender stiletto heels and a pair of matching gloves adorned her arms. Between the extreme heels and the tightness of the skirt, she was forced into taking rather tiny steps, shuffling forward more than walking. The fabric of the dress was shiny silk of the highest quality and its smooth curves left very little to the imagination. Illora-Veleanor had not entirely abandoned her Remunzian roots, however, as her hair had been done up with a multitude of flowers, countless vines woven through it.
Leading the delegation was Senator Salixa herself - the Remunzians felt that sending the Senator personally would give the correct message as to the importance of this case. Like Illora, she had not dressed up in a way that was practical by any consideration, though unlike the mate-seeker, Salixa had stuck with the Natural Beauty line. In stark contrast to the single-layered Veolian fashion, she was dressed in a many-layered gown with wide skirts, coming together in a tightly laced corset around her slender waist, her long faux-leather gloves disappearing into the sleeves of the gown, and her hair done up with several birds nests, its inhabitants chirping gently around her.
Before heading inside, the Senator took some time to address the press, as well as the crowd, having prepared a speech specifically for the Veolians - as far as the Remunzians understood them in any case.
"I am happy and proud to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest trial for freedom in the history of the Union.
Some fifty years ago, leaders of great nations, in whose symbolic shadow we still stand today, signed a declaration of Unity. This momentous decree was a great beacon of hope to billions of people in the newly founded community, and its light spread like a wildfire across the sectors, engulfing every community it encountered, from the Silver Forests of Remunzia to the Veolian Commonwealth to the deserts under the Rising Suns of Deominius, bringing that light of hope to its people that the times of chaos were once and forever, at an end.
But five decades later, the slaves in the Union are still not free. Five decades later, the life of the slave is still badly crippled by the manacles of exploitation and the chains of oppression. Five decades later, slaves still languish in the corners of Union society and find themselves exiled in their own land. So we have come here today to address this shameful condition!
We have come to this court to remind the Veolian Commonwealth, and the Union, of the fiery urgency of this matter. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off, take the tranquilizing spice of gradualism or to barter for what is rightfully ours. Now is the time to make real the promise of the end of the times of chaos. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of slavery to the unlit path of freedom. Now is the time to lift our nations from the quicksand of slavery and onto the solid rock of brotherhood.
It would be fatal for the Veolian Commonwealth to overlook the urgency of the moment. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in the Veolian Commonwealth and in the Union until slavery has ended. The whirlwind of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of the nation until the bright days of justice emerge! And that is something that I must say to the people who stand on the worn threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds.
Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protests to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the anti-slavery community must not lead us to distrust others, nor call us to take up arms, for the destinies of slave and free person is tied up together.
Let us not forget that all of us - those who own slaves, those who are slaves, and those who are free but unable to own slaves - share a common destiny. Our genome is intertwined and it is by our diversity that our species is strengthened against all threats. But to guarantee that strength, we must create a level playing field, in which we can compete based not upon that which is endowed upon us by others, but based upon our own merit.
I am not unmindful that this trial may not go the way that we intend it to. But we will continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive and will make us stronger. And even if we lose, we shall go back to our homes and not wallow in the valley of despair. Whatever happens here today, I have a hope. It is a hope that one day this nation, and all others in the Union, will rise up, and live out the true meaning of the Union, that we are all free.
I have hope, that one day in the streets of Mirda's 13 megacities, sons and daughters of former slaves and sons and daughters of former slave-owners will be able to lay down together to produce children with the greatest traits of all. I have hope, that one day, even the sweltering heat of injustice and oppression on Deominius will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice in which all of our species can bloom. I have hope, that the children and grand children of the Veolian race will one day live in a nation where they are not judged by the power granted to them by the state, but by the merit of their own genetics. I have hope today!
When we allow freedom to ring - when we let it ring from every mega-city, from every town and every house, from every state in the Union, we will be able to speed up that day when all of the sentient beings in the Union, Veolian and Twi'lek, Remunzian and Ehmet, Human and Vratix and all species in all their many variations, will form a shared, self-improving and self-reinforcing ecosystem, bringing forward the best properties in all of us, and spreading our unified genetic templates across not just the galaxy, but the universe!"
With that, the Remunzians left the public arena and entered the court to start the trial.
The first to appear was Evinar, dressed in a green sleeveless shirt seemingly made of leafs, while leaving his large arm muscles exposed. Green gloves covered his hands with which he signed autographs of his adoring fans, as well as handing out flowers to many attractive Veolian ladies, each with a card with his contact information attached. His dark green breeches and boots were in camouflage style, giving the suggestion of a warrior and he wore a green, leafy cloak to match. His hair was interwoven with the many flowers he gave out, and butterflies seemed to be drawn in with them surrounding him.
Aliania was next, dressed much less flamboyantly in a simple green and brown dress that ran down to the ground, vines woven around her body, arms and skirt from a band around her her head, blooming with small flowers in a multitude of colours. Though as a Remunzian she easily stood out, amongst her people she might be considered demure but one detail was far from shy - instead of living animals, she had brought a plushie, a white bunny-rabbit with cute embroidered eyes. Showing it to the crowd that had gathered to oppose slavery, a roaring cheer of support could be heard, the symbolism of the white rabbit ringing true especially amongst the Twi'leks who had come in from the Slave Rebellion.
Illora-Veleanor had stepped away from the Remunzian plant-based styles and had been dressed up in traditional Veolian nobles gown of high quality and make, no doubt in an organized effort by the Remunzian delegation to play up her status as a noble. Her sleeveless dress barely covered her midrif, several strategically placed holes showing off her skin, a hidden zipper in the back which went all the way up to the base of her skull. Despite the holes, the dress becoming solid at the skirt, which ran tightly along her hips and legs all the way to the ground, revealing just a peek of what seemed like a pair of insanely high, slender stiletto heels and a pair of matching gloves adorned her arms. Between the extreme heels and the tightness of the skirt, she was forced into taking rather tiny steps, shuffling forward more than walking. The fabric of the dress was shiny silk of the highest quality and its smooth curves left very little to the imagination. Illora-Veleanor had not entirely abandoned her Remunzian roots, however, as her hair had been done up with a multitude of flowers, countless vines woven through it.
Leading the delegation was Senator Salixa herself - the Remunzians felt that sending the Senator personally would give the correct message as to the importance of this case. Like Illora, she had not dressed up in a way that was practical by any consideration, though unlike the mate-seeker, Salixa had stuck with the Natural Beauty line. In stark contrast to the single-layered Veolian fashion, she was dressed in a many-layered gown with wide skirts, coming together in a tightly laced corset around her slender waist, her long faux-leather gloves disappearing into the sleeves of the gown, and her hair done up with several birds nests, its inhabitants chirping gently around her.
Before heading inside, the Senator took some time to address the press, as well as the crowd, having prepared a speech specifically for the Veolians - as far as the Remunzians understood them in any case.
"I am happy and proud to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest trial for freedom in the history of the Union.
Some fifty years ago, leaders of great nations, in whose symbolic shadow we still stand today, signed a declaration of Unity. This momentous decree was a great beacon of hope to billions of people in the newly founded community, and its light spread like a wildfire across the sectors, engulfing every community it encountered, from the Silver Forests of Remunzia to the Veolian Commonwealth to the deserts under the Rising Suns of Deominius, bringing that light of hope to its people that the times of chaos were once and forever, at an end.
But five decades later, the slaves in the Union are still not free. Five decades later, the life of the slave is still badly crippled by the manacles of exploitation and the chains of oppression. Five decades later, slaves still languish in the corners of Union society and find themselves exiled in their own land. So we have come here today to address this shameful condition!
We have come to this court to remind the Veolian Commonwealth, and the Union, of the fiery urgency of this matter. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off, take the tranquilizing spice of gradualism or to barter for what is rightfully ours. Now is the time to make real the promise of the end of the times of chaos. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of slavery to the unlit path of freedom. Now is the time to lift our nations from the quicksand of slavery and onto the solid rock of brotherhood.
It would be fatal for the Veolian Commonwealth to overlook the urgency of the moment. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in the Veolian Commonwealth and in the Union until slavery has ended. The whirlwind of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of the nation until the bright days of justice emerge! And that is something that I must say to the people who stand on the worn threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds.
Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protests to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the anti-slavery community must not lead us to distrust others, nor call us to take up arms, for the destinies of slave and free person is tied up together.
Let us not forget that all of us - those who own slaves, those who are slaves, and those who are free but unable to own slaves - share a common destiny. Our genome is intertwined and it is by our diversity that our species is strengthened against all threats. But to guarantee that strength, we must create a level playing field, in which we can compete based not upon that which is endowed upon us by others, but based upon our own merit.
I am not unmindful that this trial may not go the way that we intend it to. But we will continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive and will make us stronger. And even if we lose, we shall go back to our homes and not wallow in the valley of despair. Whatever happens here today, I have a hope. It is a hope that one day this nation, and all others in the Union, will rise up, and live out the true meaning of the Union, that we are all free.
I have hope, that one day in the streets of Mirda's 13 megacities, sons and daughters of former slaves and sons and daughters of former slave-owners will be able to lay down together to produce children with the greatest traits of all. I have hope, that one day, even the sweltering heat of injustice and oppression on Deominius will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice in which all of our species can bloom. I have hope, that the children and grand children of the Veolian race will one day live in a nation where they are not judged by the power granted to them by the state, but by the merit of their own genetics. I have hope today!
When we allow freedom to ring - when we let it ring from every mega-city, from every town and every house, from every state in the Union, we will be able to speed up that day when all of the sentient beings in the Union, Veolian and Twi'lek, Remunzian and Ehmet, Human and Vratix and all species in all their many variations, will form a shared, self-improving and self-reinforcing ecosystem, bringing forward the best properties in all of us, and spreading our unified genetic templates across not just the galaxy, but the universe!"
With that, the Remunzians left the public arena and entered the court to start the trial.
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:18 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
In contrast to the Remunzians, the veolians that stand as the defendants only have a small delegation, with only a single guard for each noble representative.
The lawyer Pratinidhi Niriba, the first member of the delegation, comes clothed in a truely ancient style of lawyer's garb usually reserved for plays and period drama. He is not accompanied by a bodyguard, and proudly walks in front of the group as he leads the other five members of the delegation up the stairs of the High Court.
The other five members are representatives from all the great houses except house Iaat. First and foremost, House Saret, represented by Lady Saret Larākia, a niece of the emperor. She wears a ceremonial armour in the colours of House Saret that royalty watchers and connoisseurs of veolian culture might recognize as an armour belonging to empress Saret Neferti. The member of the imperial house is immediately followed by Archduchess Nehket Sajjana, archduchess of Aveire and Lady Shebi Lajāna, the mother of Jedi Master Shebi Ajava. Both women wear silken clothing befitting ladies of their high station, each outfit matching the colours of their house.
The delegation is closed by Lord Khaw Sēnāpaat, commander of the Khaw defensive frigate group, and wearing traditional full ceremonial armour including the traditional armaments of sword and plasma rifle. Walking beside the massive man is Lady Dewa Lanadi, the financial mind behind Cassandra Holdings, wearing a comfortable combination of a loose vest and a sarong.
Before the delegation moves inside, Pratinidhi Niriba addresses the crowd, and more importantly to him, the press:
"I stand before you wearing the garb of a lawyer. For that is what I am. A lawyer.
A lawyer from a civilisation that has existed for millennia, a civilisation that existed before the first colonisation of the Silver Forests of Remunzia, a civilisation that stood against the times of chaos and survived. I am proud to be a part of our great civilisation, as I am proud to be a citizen of the Union.
For indeed, the Union is a beacon of light and hope in an otherwise bleak universe. But contrary to what you just heard, the Union does not engulf every community it encounters. Instead, the Union builds on those communities. It grows stronger through diversity and adapts and mutates with each new civilisation that joins. The Union is fuelled by the spirit of cooperation, understanding and discussion.
Yet the Silver Forests of Remunzia have come to my home to tear down our proud civilisation. When -- in the spirit of the Union -- an olive branch is extended in the Senate they spit on it and come here to our homes under the guise of bringing freedom. In reality they have only one goal and freedom it is not! They come to our homes to force us to adapt to their culture, to surrender to their ways, to weaken the Union by infecting it with tall poppy syndrome.
To those that want to curtail our freedom I say this: I am a lawyer from a civilisation where lawyers have plied their trade for millennia, and will ply their trade for millennia to come. As a civilisation we have overcome any obstacle in our path, and we shall continue doing so even while your memory fades from the universe!"
After this, the delegation moves inside, leaving the public arena to others that wish to make public statements.
((OOC: I hope to have more players involved in this event. So if you want your officials, Jedi, or press present at the trial feel free to introduce them here. Go ahead and have important representatives from your world address the protesters, or simply describe that they are here to observer the trial, or describe your members of the press rushing in, etc.))
The lawyer Pratinidhi Niriba, the first member of the delegation, comes clothed in a truely ancient style of lawyer's garb usually reserved for plays and period drama. He is not accompanied by a bodyguard, and proudly walks in front of the group as he leads the other five members of the delegation up the stairs of the High Court.
The other five members are representatives from all the great houses except house Iaat. First and foremost, House Saret, represented by Lady Saret Larākia, a niece of the emperor. She wears a ceremonial armour in the colours of House Saret that royalty watchers and connoisseurs of veolian culture might recognize as an armour belonging to empress Saret Neferti. The member of the imperial house is immediately followed by Archduchess Nehket Sajjana, archduchess of Aveire and Lady Shebi Lajāna, the mother of Jedi Master Shebi Ajava. Both women wear silken clothing befitting ladies of their high station, each outfit matching the colours of their house.
The delegation is closed by Lord Khaw Sēnāpaat, commander of the Khaw defensive frigate group, and wearing traditional full ceremonial armour including the traditional armaments of sword and plasma rifle. Walking beside the massive man is Lady Dewa Lanadi, the financial mind behind Cassandra Holdings, wearing a comfortable combination of a loose vest and a sarong.
Before the delegation moves inside, Pratinidhi Niriba addresses the crowd, and more importantly to him, the press:
"I stand before you wearing the garb of a lawyer. For that is what I am. A lawyer.
A lawyer from a civilisation that has existed for millennia, a civilisation that existed before the first colonisation of the Silver Forests of Remunzia, a civilisation that stood against the times of chaos and survived. I am proud to be a part of our great civilisation, as I am proud to be a citizen of the Union.
For indeed, the Union is a beacon of light and hope in an otherwise bleak universe. But contrary to what you just heard, the Union does not engulf every community it encounters. Instead, the Union builds on those communities. It grows stronger through diversity and adapts and mutates with each new civilisation that joins. The Union is fuelled by the spirit of cooperation, understanding and discussion.
Yet the Silver Forests of Remunzia have come to my home to tear down our proud civilisation. When -- in the spirit of the Union -- an olive branch is extended in the Senate they spit on it and come here to our homes under the guise of bringing freedom. In reality they have only one goal and freedom it is not! They come to our homes to force us to adapt to their culture, to surrender to their ways, to weaken the Union by infecting it with tall poppy syndrome.
To those that want to curtail our freedom I say this: I am a lawyer from a civilisation where lawyers have plied their trade for millennia, and will ply their trade for millennia to come. As a civilisation we have overcome any obstacle in our path, and we shall continue doing so even while your memory fades from the universe!"
After this, the delegation moves inside, leaving the public arena to others that wish to make public statements.
((OOC: I hope to have more players involved in this event. So if you want your officials, Jedi, or press present at the trial feel free to introduce them here. Go ahead and have important representatives from your world address the protesters, or simply describe that they are here to observer the trial, or describe your members of the press rushing in, etc.))
Jaicen Hedoss » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:34 pm
((OOC: Okay, since you were looking for Jedi, I do not quite understand if this is already within the court or outside, but I assume it is inside.))
From the news Jaicen had heard about the claim of the Remuzian's and the following court and since he wants to know more about the world and the way politics work he decides to don his Jedi robes, lets the medical droid check his vitals and adminster his medicine and orders a shuttle to the place where the trial is held with his TG-100. As it happens he was already flying by the planet, returning from a mission.
After some delay, Jaicen needed to make sure everything was in place and he had everything with him that he might need. He moves his hovercraft into the VIP area, assuming his jedi status is enough to get him there, and listens to the veolian lawyer, who just started speaking.
After the speech he mutters to his TG-100 and the person next to him:
"I can't imagine that there are still lawyers who actually use the seniority argument as a way to prove that they are right?"
"We have always done it like this, so it is right. He does not bring any other argument to the table. He does not tell us why this system is the right system for them and only says: It is an invasion of our tradition, that is not a fucking argument. Ow, we have always killed every black-colored albino on our world, we have always done so, so it must be right, ow, we have always eliminated the eyes of people who ate too much lollypops, so that makes it right. Ow, you question our ways, now we get mad?"
From the news Jaicen had heard about the claim of the Remuzian's and the following court and since he wants to know more about the world and the way politics work he decides to don his Jedi robes, lets the medical droid check his vitals and adminster his medicine and orders a shuttle to the place where the trial is held with his TG-100. As it happens he was already flying by the planet, returning from a mission.
After some delay, Jaicen needed to make sure everything was in place and he had everything with him that he might need. He moves his hovercraft into the VIP area, assuming his jedi status is enough to get him there, and listens to the veolian lawyer, who just started speaking.
After the speech he mutters to his TG-100 and the person next to him:
"I can't imagine that there are still lawyers who actually use the seniority argument as a way to prove that they are right?"
"We have always done it like this, so it is right. He does not bring any other argument to the table. He does not tell us why this system is the right system for them and only says: It is an invasion of our tradition, that is not a fucking argument. Ow, we have always killed every black-colored albino on our world, we have always done so, so it must be right, ow, we have always eliminated the eyes of people who ate too much lollypops, so that makes it right. Ow, you question our ways, now we get mad?"
Last edited by Jaicen Hedoss on Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
((OOC: 3 posts collapsed))
Veolian Commonwealth » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:08 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
((OOC: I like it that there's more people joining this RP! The speeches are outside, on the steps of the High Court building of Jala Khaira, but that doesn't really matter for your post since the comment works both inside and outside.
It bothers me a bit that you are simply declaring that you have special clearance as a Jedi... The High Court of Jala Khaira is located on Mirda, my PC world (that this is on Mirda can be seen from the [Mirda] location market in the topic subject), the home planet of the Veolians. So your whole "A new employee did not know the clearance" thing is not how it works, especially since as a Jedi do not actually have special clearance in a Veolian court of law. Please refrain from declaring how things work on my world.
That said, they will let you and your droid in, but not because you're special as a Jedi. Veolians have a lot of respect for Jedi, but you are not even a citizen of the commonwealth, and in formal or security matters they can be rather annoying. They will let you in because this is a public trial, and everyone is allowed in the audience (given that they are not uncivilised rabble). They do treat you with respect, you are a Jedi after all, but you're not getting special treatment from officials or security personnel.
I'm hoping you're willing to change your post slightly based on the new information that you're in the Veolian Commonwealth?))
It bothers me a bit that you are simply declaring that you have special clearance as a Jedi... The High Court of Jala Khaira is located on Mirda, my PC world (that this is on Mirda can be seen from the [Mirda] location market in the topic subject), the home planet of the Veolians. So your whole "A new employee did not know the clearance" thing is not how it works, especially since as a Jedi do not actually have special clearance in a Veolian court of law. Please refrain from declaring how things work on my world.
That said, they will let you and your droid in, but not because you're special as a Jedi. Veolians have a lot of respect for Jedi, but you are not even a citizen of the commonwealth, and in formal or security matters they can be rather annoying. They will let you in because this is a public trial, and everyone is allowed in the audience (given that they are not uncivilised rabble). They do treat you with respect, you are a Jedi after all, but you're not getting special treatment from officials or security personnel.
I'm hoping you're willing to change your post slightly based on the new information that you're in the Veolian Commonwealth?))
Lady Peinaili de Montrève » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:40 pm
((OOC: A Sundarian delegation will attend, however I still have find the time to write the post I had in mind.))
Jaicen Hedoss » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:52 pm
((OOC:
I thought this trial was actually held in Union city :( and assumed that there they have clearance. I will change the post))
Veolian Commonwealth wrote:I like it that there's more people joining this RP! The speeches are outside, on the steps of the High Court building of Jala Khaira, but that doesn't really matter for your post since the comment works both inside and outside.
It bothers me a bit that you are simply declaring that you have special clearance as a Jedi... The High Court of Jala Khaira is located on Mirda, my PC world (that this is on Mirda can be seen from the [Mirda] location market in the topic subject), the home planet of the Veolians. So your whole "A new employee did not know the clearance" thing is not how it works, especially since as a Jedi do not actually have special clearance in a Veolian court of law. Please refrain from declaring how things work on my world.
That said, they will let you and your droid in, but not because you're special as a Jedi. Veolians have a lot of respect for Jedi, but you are not even a citizen of the commonwealth, and in formal or security matters they can be rather annoying. They will let you in because this is a public trial, and everyone is allowed in the audience (given that they are not uncivilised rabble). They do treat you with respect, you are a Jedi after all, but you're not getting special treatment from officials or security personnel.
I'm hoping you're willing to change your post slightly based on the new information that you're in the Veolian Commonwealth?
I thought this trial was actually held in Union city :( and assumed that there they have clearance. I will change the post))
Lady Peinaili de Montrève » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:54 am
((OOC: This post is shorter than I originally intended))
The Sundarian Federation has sent a rather sizeable delegation to study the trail, proceedings and outcome of the Remunzian case against the Veolian slave owners, lead by Senator Peinailli de Montrève herself. The body of the delegation consisted of several members of the Sundarian Council, representatives of several major law firms within the Federation with their staff, legal aids and several students, and some interested journalists and citizens.
"The Sundarian Federation is curious to see the outcome of this trail and to study the arguments presented by either side. We will compare these with our own viewpoints and legislation." the Senator explained the large delegation.
The Sundarian Federation has sent a rather sizeable delegation to study the trail, proceedings and outcome of the Remunzian case against the Veolian slave owners, lead by Senator Peinailli de Montrève herself. The body of the delegation consisted of several members of the Sundarian Council, representatives of several major law firms within the Federation with their staff, legal aids and several students, and some interested journalists and citizens.
"The Sundarian Federation is curious to see the outcome of this trail and to study the arguments presented by either side. We will compare these with our own viewpoints and legislation." the Senator explained the large delegation.
Khaw Darsana » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:23 pm
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Khaw Darsana - PC
((OOC: I'm going to skip an elaborate description of the situation near the courthouse since a previous post can be read for this information.))
Jaicen's status as a Jedi was easily enough to get his shuttle routed to a good landing pad nearby the High Court building in Jala Khaira. From the sky he could already see the mass of protestors standing on the plaza in front of the Court building. After arriving, he easily makes his way to the edge of the crowd.
The person next to him appears to be a purple-skinned veolian woman, wearing an outfit made of leather bands and reminiscent of an armour. The outfit comes with flat-soled boots reaching well over her knees, and two wide leather belts accentuate her waist to complete her outfit. All clasps are made of silver, and both her belt buckles feature a large emerald.
She shrugs. "It wouldn't be the first time that the seniority argument is used. When someone has lived for a few hundred years it can become difficult to contemplate sudden changes", she replied off-handedly. Then, realizing she replied in galactic basic, she looks at TG-100 first and then lets her eyes glide over Jaicen and his hover chair for a moment before looking him in the eyes.
"But I do think you completely missed the actual argument: that the Remunzians should have discussed this matter in the Union Senate, where it belongs. Instead, they come to our world to sue our citizen for something they refused to discuss in the senate. That is a fucking argument.", she looked at Jaicen with a thin smile before continuing in a sharp tone, "Maybe your misplaced sense of righteousness got in the way of actually listening? Next time you come to someone's world to criticize their ways, how about paying attention first and forming a polite response second. You have to learn to crawl before you can learn to walk, after all."
Jaicen's status as a Jedi was easily enough to get his shuttle routed to a good landing pad nearby the High Court building in Jala Khaira. From the sky he could already see the mass of protestors standing on the plaza in front of the Court building. After arriving, he easily makes his way to the edge of the crowd.
The person next to him appears to be a purple-skinned veolian woman, wearing an outfit made of leather bands and reminiscent of an armour. The outfit comes with flat-soled boots reaching well over her knees, and two wide leather belts accentuate her waist to complete her outfit. All clasps are made of silver, and both her belt buckles feature a large emerald.
She shrugs. "It wouldn't be the first time that the seniority argument is used. When someone has lived for a few hundred years it can become difficult to contemplate sudden changes", she replied off-handedly. Then, realizing she replied in galactic basic, she looks at TG-100 first and then lets her eyes glide over Jaicen and his hover chair for a moment before looking him in the eyes.
"But I do think you completely missed the actual argument: that the Remunzians should have discussed this matter in the Union Senate, where it belongs. Instead, they come to our world to sue our citizen for something they refused to discuss in the senate. That is a fucking argument.", she looked at Jaicen with a thin smile before continuing in a sharp tone, "Maybe your misplaced sense of righteousness got in the way of actually listening? Next time you come to someone's world to criticize their ways, how about paying attention first and forming a polite response second. You have to learn to crawl before you can learn to walk, after all."
Danar Sylvia » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:58 pm
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Danar Sylvia - PC
A delegation of the Teprogrenaian Consensus arrived. At least one Teprogrenaian from each high Consult is present, with their Consult insignias clearly visible in their clothing. In general their clothing is themed in a trend of armour plating held together by fabrics in the colour of the corresponding Consults. Each member wears instead of pants something as best described as a formal looking loincloth which reaches all the way to the ground.
Clearly the spokesperson, Danar Sylvia tells the interested press: "Tolerance and sovereignty in your own faction, those are two fundamental elements on which the Union is build. It is no secret that we of the Teprogrenaian Consensus disprove slavery. But more importantly it should be known that Teprogrenaian Consensus never has forced any world to change their culture. Therefore we will observe the law-suit with great interest but whatever the outcome will be, we will not let it harm the relations between the Teprogrenaian Consensus and the Veolian Commonwealth."
Clearly the spokesperson, Danar Sylvia tells the interested press: "Tolerance and sovereignty in your own faction, those are two fundamental elements on which the Union is build. It is no secret that we of the Teprogrenaian Consensus disprove slavery. But more importantly it should be known that Teprogrenaian Consensus never has forced any world to change their culture. Therefore we will observe the law-suit with great interest but whatever the outcome will be, we will not let it harm the relations between the Teprogrenaian Consensus and the Veolian Commonwealth."
Jaicen Hedoss » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:01 am
Jaicen obviously had some problems raising his own voice above the crowd to make himself audible to the purple colored Veolian. But after some coughing with his voice he was able to respond:
"Yes, that can be, change is always difficult, but an advanced lawyer, who has worked and lived hundreds of years should be able to provide a better, logical, reasoning with arguments, even if the emotion of adverse to change is the factor behind some of the decisions."
The next sentenced was sharper than he expected and he was taken aback for a few seconds. He also did not expect a veolian noble to curse, but he Jaicen recovered and said:
"I did not miss this point at all ... that part of his speech is quite reasonable. I actually do not judge a whole culture regarding the case, nor do I actually support one point, since I am not familiar with your culture and theirs to understand the finer details......."
Jaicen rested a moment...
"....... I am actually here to understand more about this problem and to get more insight in how both your cultures work on these matters. If you want me to crawl, well, I am trying it now."
A faint smile was visible.
"By the way, wasn't there a whole discussion in the senate regarding this subject, which was put to a vote? "
"Yes, that can be, change is always difficult, but an advanced lawyer, who has worked and lived hundreds of years should be able to provide a better, logical, reasoning with arguments, even if the emotion of adverse to change is the factor behind some of the decisions."
The next sentenced was sharper than he expected and he was taken aback for a few seconds. He also did not expect a veolian noble to curse, but he Jaicen recovered and said:
"I did not miss this point at all ... that part of his speech is quite reasonable. I actually do not judge a whole culture regarding the case, nor do I actually support one point, since I am not familiar with your culture and theirs to understand the finer details......."
Jaicen rested a moment...
"....... I am actually here to understand more about this problem and to get more insight in how both your cultures work on these matters. If you want me to crawl, well, I am trying it now."
A faint smile was visible.
"By the way, wasn't there a whole discussion in the senate regarding this subject, which was put to a vote? "
Khaw Darsana » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:57 pm
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Khaw Darsana - PC
"Please, don't raise your voice on my account, I am perfectly capable of hearing your whispers in this noise.", she says with an expression of dismissal, "The whole thing, even where you ridiculed my culture with your comparisons to killing all black-colored albino's or killing everyon that eats to many lollipops..."
"It is lucky for mister Pratinidhi then that this is only a speech to the press and the populace, and as such it does not require the finesse necessary in a court of law. I am sure that he will have more reasoned and logically constructed arguments inside."
She looked at Jaicen for a moment, with a mixed expression.
"You are right, there most certainly was a vote. And the Remunzians refused to cast their vote, instead of following the example of the Hiocan Society, who actually voted to end slavery. I think the Hiocan's have garnered much respect in the Commonwealth for their steadfast dedication to their ideals. It is one to proclaim one's opinion, it is another thing to act on it."
"Will you join me inside, Jedi?", she asked, "Even though you seem a tad abrasive, it might be interesting to compare observations after the hearing."
"It is lucky for mister Pratinidhi then that this is only a speech to the press and the populace, and as such it does not require the finesse necessary in a court of law. I am sure that he will have more reasoned and logically constructed arguments inside."
She looked at Jaicen for a moment, with a mixed expression.
"You are right, there most certainly was a vote. And the Remunzians refused to cast their vote, instead of following the example of the Hiocan Society, who actually voted to end slavery. I think the Hiocan's have garnered much respect in the Commonwealth for their steadfast dedication to their ideals. It is one to proclaim one's opinion, it is another thing to act on it."
"Will you join me inside, Jedi?", she asked, "Even though you seem a tad abrasive, it might be interesting to compare observations after the hearing."
Veolian Commonwealth » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:06 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
The announcements by the Sundarians and the Teprogrenaians are met with mixed reactions from the protestors. It seems that the anti- and pro-slavery camps are not exactly clear on their stance with regards to other worlds. But the Teprogrenaian's statement that they will not let the outcome influence their opinion on the Veolian Commonwealth was met with a loud boo from a group of Twi'lek firmly on the anti-slavery side.
With most groups moving inside, the press tried to get a quote or two from other noteworthy persons walking by, but made sure to steer clear of Jaicen or the noblewoman. Inside the courthouse, some preparations were made to ensure that the large audience moves towards the correct room, and does not flood the whole courthouse. The Court room itself was currently in a state of controlled chaos as everyone was filing into the room.
((OOC: I'll post the opening of this hearing soon. Until then, feel free to socialize or interact with others in the audience.))
With most groups moving inside, the press tried to get a quote or two from other noteworthy persons walking by, but made sure to steer clear of Jaicen or the noblewoman. Inside the courthouse, some preparations were made to ensure that the large audience moves towards the correct room, and does not flood the whole courthouse. The Court room itself was currently in a state of controlled chaos as everyone was filing into the room.
((OOC: I'll post the opening of this hearing soon. Until then, feel free to socialize or interact with others in the audience.))
Veolian Commonwealth » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:17 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
After some time, most likely to let everyone in the audience find a seat, a court official entered the Court room through a side door.
This man is clearly used to addressing noisy rooms with his well-practiced loud voice:
"Case 76899. The Remunzian mate-seekers versus the Veolian Slave Owners. Please rise for his honour Tarkasangata Vicārasīla presiding, in lady Khaw Rohana's stead."
The very recognizable sound of a large group of people standing up from their chairs could be heard, as every well-manered member of the audience and all delegations rise at the same time. After everyone rose (except those that could not due to medical reasons), the judge himself enters the room through the side door, and installs himself at the bench.
With a clear voice that betrays his age he states:
"I hereby open the first hearing on the thirteenth of October of the year 2015.
Please be seated."
The judge waits a moment for everyone to sit down again. A few irreverent members of the press use this time to quickly align their holorecorders and live streaming equipment to capture the bench and the area in front of it. After a stern glance from the judge they quickly sit down as well.
"Honoured plaintiffs and defendants", the judge opened with the traditional confirmation that both parties to the case are of noble blood and have status to appear before the high court," Because of the fundamental and philosophical nature of this case, we will deviate somewhat from the normal proceedings for a civil suit of this magnitude."
"This first hearing will be structured so as to allow both parties the opportunity to examine the reasoning of the other party, and to demarcate the scope of the charges brought against the defendants. To preserve fairness, opposing council will always be granted the opportunity to rebut. The structure of follow-up hearings will be decided afterwards, in discussion with council for both plaintiffs and defendants."
"The plaintiffs have presented their first argument with the charges they brought forward. I hereby give the floor to the defendants to commence with inquiry."
This man is clearly used to addressing noisy rooms with his well-practiced loud voice:
"Case 76899. The Remunzian mate-seekers versus the Veolian Slave Owners. Please rise for his honour Tarkasangata Vicārasīla presiding, in lady Khaw Rohana's stead."
The very recognizable sound of a large group of people standing up from their chairs could be heard, as every well-manered member of the audience and all delegations rise at the same time. After everyone rose (except those that could not due to medical reasons), the judge himself enters the room through the side door, and installs himself at the bench.
With a clear voice that betrays his age he states:
"I hereby open the first hearing on the thirteenth of October of the year 2015.
Please be seated."
The judge waits a moment for everyone to sit down again. A few irreverent members of the press use this time to quickly align their holorecorders and live streaming equipment to capture the bench and the area in front of it. After a stern glance from the judge they quickly sit down as well.
"Honoured plaintiffs and defendants", the judge opened with the traditional confirmation that both parties to the case are of noble blood and have status to appear before the high court," Because of the fundamental and philosophical nature of this case, we will deviate somewhat from the normal proceedings for a civil suit of this magnitude."
"This first hearing will be structured so as to allow both parties the opportunity to examine the reasoning of the other party, and to demarcate the scope of the charges brought against the defendants. To preserve fairness, opposing council will always be granted the opportunity to rebut. The structure of follow-up hearings will be decided afterwards, in discussion with council for both plaintiffs and defendants."
"The plaintiffs have presented their first argument with the charges they brought forward. I hereby give the floor to the defendants to commence with inquiry."
Pratinidhi Niriba (mask of Veolian Commonwealth) » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:33 pm
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Pratinidhi Niriba (mask of Veolian Commonwealth) - Faction
"Thank you, your honour.", the lawyer smoothly replied as he took the floor.
Turning his attention to the audience and the Remunzian delegation, he starts his first inquiry.
"In their charges, the Silver Forests of Remunzia have brought forward the argument that slave ownership is created by artificial legal constructs, that it grants this ability beyond what the owner is naturally capable of, and that the enforcement of this legal construct is dependant upon external forces. They claim that among the abilities granted is the unnatural ability of being able to be in more than one place at the same time, which gives any slave owner an unfair advantage in terms of reproduction over individuals lack such artificial enhancements. Because of this, they propose to view slave ownership as effectively equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement."
"Regardless of whether one agrees with these claims, there is a certain logic to their reasoning. It is this logic that I wish to investigate further, to get an understanding of what it is exactly that the Silver Forests of Remunzia argue. The scheme of argumentation the Silver Forests of Remunzia use is as follows:"
He holds up one finger of his hand: "There exists a law which encodes rights and duties for a defined group of people,"
He holds up two fingers of his hand: "this law grants an ability that these people are not naturally capable of."
He holds up three fingers of his hand: "This ability provides an unfair advantage in area of reproduction,"
He holds up for fingers of his hand: "and because it is based on external enforcement it is effectively the same as a cybernetic enhancement."
"The Silver Forests of Remunzia apply this reasoning to slave ownership. Yet this reasoning applies equally to marriage, and to trade contracts, and to many other forms of lawful behaviour.
For example, the exact same reasoning applies to marriage. I can bring forward the argument that marriages are created by artificial legal constructs, that the legal construct grants this ability beyond what their participants are naturally capable of, and that the enforcement of this legal construct is dependant upon external forces. I can claim that among the abilities granted is the unnatural ability of the husband being able to be in more than one place at the same time due to his wives legal right to sign his name, which gives any husband an unfair advantage in terms of reproduction over individuals lack such artificial enhancements. Because of this, I can propose to view marriage as effectively equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement."
"Your honour", he turns his attention back to the judge, "This exact argument holds for any other contractual obligation that is enforced by the state. In the natural state of things slave ownership is not a factor, just as marriage is not a factor. Nor are employment, nor are trade contracts, nor are any other forms of contractual obligation or agreements.
This case is unique in that the charges appear to seek to set a precedent for a broad class of abilities. This class contains all abilities granted through law and that are enforced by the legal and sovereign government of the Veolian Commonwealth. As such, any ruling made here will reverb throughout our society and touch the very fabric of lawful and civilized conduct.
As they present it the reasoning of the Silver Forests of Remunzia does not stop with owning slaves. It does not stop with anything actually. They reason for the complete and total dismantling of lawful society as whole, where no agreement between two parties can be enforced by anyone but these two parties.
"Your honour, I inquiry as to how the plaintiffs discriminate between slave ownership, and marriage, employment or other contractual obligations and agreements."
After his first inquiry, the veolian lawyer calmly returns to his chair and sits down.
Turning his attention to the audience and the Remunzian delegation, he starts his first inquiry.
"In their charges, the Silver Forests of Remunzia have brought forward the argument that slave ownership is created by artificial legal constructs, that it grants this ability beyond what the owner is naturally capable of, and that the enforcement of this legal construct is dependant upon external forces. They claim that among the abilities granted is the unnatural ability of being able to be in more than one place at the same time, which gives any slave owner an unfair advantage in terms of reproduction over individuals lack such artificial enhancements. Because of this, they propose to view slave ownership as effectively equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement."
"Regardless of whether one agrees with these claims, there is a certain logic to their reasoning. It is this logic that I wish to investigate further, to get an understanding of what it is exactly that the Silver Forests of Remunzia argue. The scheme of argumentation the Silver Forests of Remunzia use is as follows:"
He holds up one finger of his hand: "There exists a law which encodes rights and duties for a defined group of people,"
He holds up two fingers of his hand: "this law grants an ability that these people are not naturally capable of."
He holds up three fingers of his hand: "This ability provides an unfair advantage in area of reproduction,"
He holds up for fingers of his hand: "and because it is based on external enforcement it is effectively the same as a cybernetic enhancement."
"The Silver Forests of Remunzia apply this reasoning to slave ownership. Yet this reasoning applies equally to marriage, and to trade contracts, and to many other forms of lawful behaviour.
For example, the exact same reasoning applies to marriage. I can bring forward the argument that marriages are created by artificial legal constructs, that the legal construct grants this ability beyond what their participants are naturally capable of, and that the enforcement of this legal construct is dependant upon external forces. I can claim that among the abilities granted is the unnatural ability of the husband being able to be in more than one place at the same time due to his wives legal right to sign his name, which gives any husband an unfair advantage in terms of reproduction over individuals lack such artificial enhancements. Because of this, I can propose to view marriage as effectively equivalent to a cybernetic enhancement."
"Your honour", he turns his attention back to the judge, "This exact argument holds for any other contractual obligation that is enforced by the state. In the natural state of things slave ownership is not a factor, just as marriage is not a factor. Nor are employment, nor are trade contracts, nor are any other forms of contractual obligation or agreements.
This case is unique in that the charges appear to seek to set a precedent for a broad class of abilities. This class contains all abilities granted through law and that are enforced by the legal and sovereign government of the Veolian Commonwealth. As such, any ruling made here will reverb throughout our society and touch the very fabric of lawful and civilized conduct.
As they present it the reasoning of the Silver Forests of Remunzia does not stop with owning slaves. It does not stop with anything actually. They reason for the complete and total dismantling of lawful society as whole, where no agreement between two parties can be enforced by anyone but these two parties.
"Your honour, I inquiry as to how the plaintiffs discriminate between slave ownership, and marriage, employment or other contractual obligations and agreements."
After his first inquiry, the veolian lawyer calmly returns to his chair and sits down.
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:36 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
The judge waits a moment while the defence lawyer sits down.
"I hereby give the floor to the plaintiffs to provide clarification on this point, and to allow for a rebuttal."
"I hereby give the floor to the plaintiffs to provide clarification on this point, and to allow for a rebuttal."
Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:01 pm
"Objection!" the Remunzian lawyer countered before the senator was able to speak herself "The outrageous comparison being made here, that slave ownership is similar to a trade contract, is deeply offensive to the plaintiffs and in the strongest possible terms do we hope that you will keep them from continuing to incite my clients!"
The protest might or might not work with the judge, but at least it calmed down the rather spiked physical reactions from the Remunzians in the delegation, Senator Salixa especially seeming as if someone had stepped on one of her birds. The lawyers interjection likely saved her from going into a tirade that might have been considered disrespectful towards the judge.
"Moreover, we disagree that the charges would set a precedent for a broad class of abilities.
While trade agreements are enforced by the law, they do not confer upon a person any direct abilities. For example, a trade agreement allows a person to buy a good at a certain price, but it does not confer a unique ability not otherwise possessed by an individual. Even without the law to enforce it, a trade agreement could be made allowing a person to buy a good at a certain price.
Whether an individual might be able to get a better deal or a different deal in a situation where the law is with them rather than in a situation where it is not is a matter that can be debated - it is speculation. Moreover, it is wholly irrelevant. The core ability of making and carrying out the trade agreement between two business partners does not depend inherently on the law.
In contrast, owning a slave -does- convey upon a person a direct ability, specifically the ability to be in two places at the same time. And the law is explicitly necessary for this ability to exist, since no person would recognize someone as being the same person as their slave without such a law.
This provides a simple and clear answer as to how the plaintiffs discriminate between slave ownership and marriage, employment or other contractual obligations and agreements. The former grants a direct, specific ability not naturally available which exists solely because of artificial legal constructs. The latter do not. More explicitly, marriage does not grant direct specific abilities not naturally available. Employment and other contractual obligations do not rely solely on an artificial legal construct.
As such, slavery is in a unique position and any outcome of this trial does not apply to other cases as proposed by the defense."
The protest might or might not work with the judge, but at least it calmed down the rather spiked physical reactions from the Remunzians in the delegation, Senator Salixa especially seeming as if someone had stepped on one of her birds. The lawyers interjection likely saved her from going into a tirade that might have been considered disrespectful towards the judge.
"Moreover, we disagree that the charges would set a precedent for a broad class of abilities.
While trade agreements are enforced by the law, they do not confer upon a person any direct abilities. For example, a trade agreement allows a person to buy a good at a certain price, but it does not confer a unique ability not otherwise possessed by an individual. Even without the law to enforce it, a trade agreement could be made allowing a person to buy a good at a certain price.
Whether an individual might be able to get a better deal or a different deal in a situation where the law is with them rather than in a situation where it is not is a matter that can be debated - it is speculation. Moreover, it is wholly irrelevant. The core ability of making and carrying out the trade agreement between two business partners does not depend inherently on the law.
In contrast, owning a slave -does- convey upon a person a direct ability, specifically the ability to be in two places at the same time. And the law is explicitly necessary for this ability to exist, since no person would recognize someone as being the same person as their slave without such a law.
This provides a simple and clear answer as to how the plaintiffs discriminate between slave ownership and marriage, employment or other contractual obligations and agreements. The former grants a direct, specific ability not naturally available which exists solely because of artificial legal constructs. The latter do not. More explicitly, marriage does not grant direct specific abilities not naturally available. Employment and other contractual obligations do not rely solely on an artificial legal construct.
As such, slavery is in a unique position and any outcome of this trial does not apply to other cases as proposed by the defense."
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:30 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
The judge's expression gave a slight hint of surprise when he was addressed simply as "you" instead of "your honour" but he did not react to it any further.
"Seeing how the plaintiffs themselves argue in part based upon comparison of legal situations and rights, it is to be expected that the defence will speak about and compare legal situations and rights. Overruled."
"That being said, this is a court of law, not a holonews station. Mister Pratinidhi, please refrain from rhetoric whose main intent is to incite the plaintiffs, audience or assembled media."
"Seeing how the plaintiffs themselves argue in part based upon comparison of legal situations and rights, it is to be expected that the defence will speak about and compare legal situations and rights. Overruled."
"That being said, this is a court of law, not a holonews station. Mister Pratinidhi, please refrain from rhetoric whose main intent is to incite the plaintiffs, audience or assembled media."
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:55 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
Giving up this line of reasoning for now, the defence lawyer switches to his next item of inquiry.
"Naturally, your honour", he replies to the judge's admonition.
Once more, the defence lawyer turns his attentions towards the Remunzian delegation -- while at the same time positioning himself to make sure that the press could get a few good images of him arguing his case in traditional robes while the Remunzian senator is seen wearing bird's nests in her hair.
"The Silver Forests of Remunzia have argued that the ability to own slaves is not one that is biologically possessed by individuals, but that it is one created by artificial means. They argue that the ownership of slaves is dependent upon an external source of power that is beyond the abilities of any individual slave owner and that ownership of a slave is therefore not representative of the abilities of my clients."
"I am wearing a lawyer's robe. I bought it about forty-five years ago. Not only am I currently in possession of this robe, it is also my legal property.
Like many of you, I am also the owner of a hovercar. As you can see, I am not currently in my hovercar. Yet, the hovercar is still my legal property. I need not hold on to it to keep it is mine: it is still my property even though it is not currently in my possession.
A while ago, someone tried to steal my car. Fortunately for me, he was arrested two hours later by the police, and my car was returned to me. If I could only own my car if I held on to it and fought off thieves, I would have lost my hovercar by now as there are thieves that can physically overpower me. Instead of relying on my own power, I can count on the law and the enforcement of that law by the police.
As you can see, my ownership of my hovercar is dependent upon an external source of power that is beyond my ability. If the police did not help me, I would have lost my car. Ownership of a car is therefore not representative of my natural abilities."
"A slave is not comparable to a car. A slave is a living being, someone to be cared for, and to be accorded respect for their dedication to service and selfless pursuit of perfection. A car is a mere machine, beloved by some and simply used a method of getting from A to B by others.
Yet this is about the legal right of ownership. Like the ability to own a slave, the ability to own a car is based on the same enforcement by law.
The defence holds that the ability to own a slave is a cybernetic enhancement. Is the ownership of a car also a cybernetic enhancement? What about the ownership of a house? Or the ownership of a piece of land? How about the ownership of plants in a garden? Or the ownership of a of a small flock of nesting birds?
Your honour, I inquire to the extent and scope that the defence ascribes to their argument that the enforcement of rights granted by law constitutes a cybernetic enhancement."
"Naturally, your honour", he replies to the judge's admonition.
Once more, the defence lawyer turns his attentions towards the Remunzian delegation -- while at the same time positioning himself to make sure that the press could get a few good images of him arguing his case in traditional robes while the Remunzian senator is seen wearing bird's nests in her hair.
"The Silver Forests of Remunzia have argued that the ability to own slaves is not one that is biologically possessed by individuals, but that it is one created by artificial means. They argue that the ownership of slaves is dependent upon an external source of power that is beyond the abilities of any individual slave owner and that ownership of a slave is therefore not representative of the abilities of my clients."
"I am wearing a lawyer's robe. I bought it about forty-five years ago. Not only am I currently in possession of this robe, it is also my legal property.
Like many of you, I am also the owner of a hovercar. As you can see, I am not currently in my hovercar. Yet, the hovercar is still my legal property. I need not hold on to it to keep it is mine: it is still my property even though it is not currently in my possession.
A while ago, someone tried to steal my car. Fortunately for me, he was arrested two hours later by the police, and my car was returned to me. If I could only own my car if I held on to it and fought off thieves, I would have lost my hovercar by now as there are thieves that can physically overpower me. Instead of relying on my own power, I can count on the law and the enforcement of that law by the police.
As you can see, my ownership of my hovercar is dependent upon an external source of power that is beyond my ability. If the police did not help me, I would have lost my car. Ownership of a car is therefore not representative of my natural abilities."
"A slave is not comparable to a car. A slave is a living being, someone to be cared for, and to be accorded respect for their dedication to service and selfless pursuit of perfection. A car is a mere machine, beloved by some and simply used a method of getting from A to B by others.
Yet this is about the legal right of ownership. Like the ability to own a slave, the ability to own a car is based on the same enforcement by law.
The defence holds that the ability to own a slave is a cybernetic enhancement. Is the ownership of a car also a cybernetic enhancement? What about the ownership of a house? Or the ownership of a piece of land? How about the ownership of plants in a garden? Or the ownership of a of a small flock of nesting birds?
Your honour, I inquire to the extent and scope that the defence ascribes to their argument that the enforcement of rights granted by law constitutes a cybernetic enhancement."
Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:04 pm
"The defense misunderstand the fundamental problem with 'owning' a slave" the Remunzians lawyer objected.
"We are not arguing in favour of a system where you can own only what you are physically able to hold, but we are objecting on a far more fundamental level.
Objects, such as cars, combs or credits" he explained "can naturally be owned, by the singular fact that they are objects. The defence lawyers car (no matter how badly he secures it) cannot, for example, decide on its own that it wants to leave the ownership of the defence lawyer. In fact, it has no will at all.
The car requires an external actor - the thief - in order for it to be removed from the ownership of the defence lawyer."
The Remunzians lawyer looked around for a moment
"The same does not hold for a slave - ownership of a slave is not a natural property of the people who have been declared slaves. Rather it is a property which is laid upon them by the state - and explicitly not the owner of the slave.
Notice that this is not a matter of whether the slave can be stolen..."
A stern look from the Remunzian senator made the lawyer correct himself
"Or rather, kidnapped."
The Remunzian senator nodded, pleased with the correction.
"It is a matter of whether the slave can decide by their own free will to not want to be owned, and whether or not they are able to change their mind afterwards. More clearly, once the slave decides they no longer want to be owned, the owner cannot force them to change their mind, but must rely on the law to enforce continued slavery. This is fundamentally different from a car.
Since plants and animals have no ability to understand the concept of ownership, like objects they are unable to change their minds about wanting to be owned. One cannot change their mind over something one does not understand."
The Remunzian senator whispered to the lawyer a moment.
"I would like to add that the lovely birds and other animals brought in by the Remunzian delegation are not, in fact, owned by them, but instead have been given a place to live on them, and as such, they choose to remain with them of their own free will."
"We are not arguing in favour of a system where you can own only what you are physically able to hold, but we are objecting on a far more fundamental level.
Objects, such as cars, combs or credits" he explained "can naturally be owned, by the singular fact that they are objects. The defence lawyers car (no matter how badly he secures it) cannot, for example, decide on its own that it wants to leave the ownership of the defence lawyer. In fact, it has no will at all.
The car requires an external actor - the thief - in order for it to be removed from the ownership of the defence lawyer."
The Remunzians lawyer looked around for a moment
"The same does not hold for a slave - ownership of a slave is not a natural property of the people who have been declared slaves. Rather it is a property which is laid upon them by the state - and explicitly not the owner of the slave.
Notice that this is not a matter of whether the slave can be stolen..."
A stern look from the Remunzian senator made the lawyer correct himself
"Or rather, kidnapped."
The Remunzian senator nodded, pleased with the correction.
"It is a matter of whether the slave can decide by their own free will to not want to be owned, and whether or not they are able to change their mind afterwards. More clearly, once the slave decides they no longer want to be owned, the owner cannot force them to change their mind, but must rely on the law to enforce continued slavery. This is fundamentally different from a car.
Since plants and animals have no ability to understand the concept of ownership, like objects they are unable to change their minds about wanting to be owned. One cannot change their mind over something one does not understand."
The Remunzian senator whispered to the lawyer a moment.
"I would like to add that the lovely birds and other animals brought in by the Remunzian delegation are not, in fact, owned by them, but instead have been given a place to live on them, and as such, they choose to remain with them of their own free will."
Veolian Commonwealth » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:49 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
The veolian lawyer turns around to give a sharp reply to the last addition about the lovely birds choosing to remain of their free will...
But the judge intervenes before the lawyer can actually utter the first word.
"The plaintiffs have elaborated on the scope and extend they envision for their argument.", he states with a clear voice, "This court is adjourned, and will reconvene in two weeks. The court will read and consider their admission into record any amicus brief it receives."
Because of the nature of this case, and the relation to earlier events in the Union senate, I strongly suggest that the senate be informed of this opportunity to submit legal opinion, testimony and legal interpretation for either side."
With those closing words High Judge Tarkasangata Vicārasīla rises, and calmly leaves the court room.
But the judge intervenes before the lawyer can actually utter the first word.
"The plaintiffs have elaborated on the scope and extend they envision for their argument.", he states with a clear voice, "This court is adjourned, and will reconvene in two weeks. The court will read and consider their admission into record any amicus brief it receives."
Because of the nature of this case, and the relation to earlier events in the Union senate, I strongly suggest that the senate be informed of this opportunity to submit legal opinion, testimony and legal interpretation for either side."
With those closing words High Judge Tarkasangata Vicārasīla rises, and calmly leaves the court room.