Fwurg

[Mercury]

((OOC: While marked as battle, this post does not follow any combat rules. Rather than design them, I've made a small puzzle and set of choices for players to make. In this first phase of the puzzle, you'll have to agree on an overall plan and assign forces to different duties in the invasion))

"The invasion is well under way. Based on the terrain and deployment of enemy forces, the planet has been divided into four battle zones. We will need to assign each army to a battle zone. Fleets will take a supporting role.

The Northern Forests, including the North Pole, is home to a defensive zone by the Slave Rebellion. It is heavily entrenched, difficult terrain and area's can get exceptionally cold. Races which are Gasses Oriented, Cybernetic or Huge will likely be at an advantage, while those who are Metal Oriented will have a disadvantage.

The Western hemisphere contains a large ocean and several sea's. It will offer a huge advantage to races which are Aquatic. Races which are not Cybernetic or Aquatic will be at a disadvantage.

The Eastern Forests comprises of large woodlands, and lots of difficult terrain. Races which are Organics Oriented, Force Sensitive or Coordinated will have an advantage, while races which are Information oriented will be at a disadvantage.

The Southern Forests, including the South Pole, also houses a strong defensive zone by the Slave Rebellion. It is less dense and contains a lot of larger cities. Races which are Organics Oriented, Ecological, Nomadic or have Natural Flight will be at an advantage.

Naturally, races which have Combat Ability or which are Militaristic will have an advantage regardless of their deployment, and certain special powers may also offer an advantage."

((OOC: The Minister of Defence is allowed to assign armies, though the player can refuse to send his army if he so chooses. You are allowed to discuss before making a final choice, but I will wait for the Minister of Defence to post their final choice before continuing. If players don't protest, I presume they agree with the assignment, I won't wait for the okay from everyone.

Once assigned, each of the four zones will get its own special event in a later post, based on the local situation, army advantages, disadvantages and the armies assigned. Only players who are that zone will get to decide how they respond to the event. If you have multiple armies in different zones, you can participate in all.

I will also have an event for fleets. All players with fleets who remain for the invasion will have the option to act on that.

At various points in this topic, I will present options to choose from, but if you have a unique and different solution, I am open to hearing it, and if it makes sense, I will add an option for you!))

[Dragonmaster352]

((OOC: Are we going to discuss deployment IC or OOC?))

[Chriz]

((OOC: For the purposes of this exercise I am assuming that both Veolian armies are consisting of only Hemet Veolians, since they both have the Hemet bonus dot.

I am working on my own analysis and will write an IC proposal with the admiral.))

[Veolian Commonwealth]

((OOC: It is true that rules-wise both Veolian armies benefit from the Combat Ability racial, and are backed by Hemet Veolian population groups.

That said, I'd rather you read the actual wiki pages for the armies, instead of assuming (and thereby effectively declaring) how Veolian armies are built up.

Your assumption holds for the Veolian Imperial Guard. But it does not for the Dewa Shaanti Sainikon; it is correct that the backbone of the army is formed by hemet veolian special operations units, but there are numerous non-hemet rank-and-file soldiers in the Dewa army. And the whole army is being deployed, not only the special operations units.))

[Alexander Giambastiani]

"This battle starts with difficult choices. Remunzia has difficult terrain that could hinder our invasion. "Together with the ministry of defence I have devised a deployment plan.

In the West we have several sea's. We propose to deploy the Astrian Colonial Marines there, since they are the only one of our armies that is not at a serious disadvantage there.
In the North the terrain is difficult, and the slave Rebellion has a defensive zone. We propose to deploy the Veolian Imperial Guard there since their natural combat advantage will give them an advantage.
In the South there is another defensive zone of the Slave Rebellion. The area is less dense and it contains a lot of larger cities. We propose to deploy two armies there: The Sundarian Army and the Omnipotari Security Forces. We believe the Sundarian army is well equiped to fight in the cities and the Praetorian army can take advantage of the less dense areas and support from the sky.
Finally we propose to deploy the Dewa Shaanti Sainikon in the East. As Veolians they should have no trouble traversing the dense forests and take control of this region.

Any suggestions or proposed changes?"

((OOC: Proposal and relevant modifiers:

• North - Veolian Imperial Guard | (+1 combat ability) total: +1
• West - Astrian Colonial Marines First Army | total: 0
• East - Dewa Shaanti Sainikon | (+1 combat ability, +1 force sensitive, -1 information) total: +1
• South - Omnipotari Security Forces, 1st Sundarian Army | (+1 natural flight, +1 extra army) total: +2

))

[Veolian Commonwealth]

The veolian fleet admiral Saman Machal, of the Veolian Imperial Fleet, listens to the proposal.

"Your proposal seems sound, though I would suggest to have the Titans join the first colonial marines. The omnipotari forces will have a distinct advantage in the south on their own as well, and it seems that the colonial marines could use the support on the seas. They might have access to advanced cybernetics, which places them in an advantageous situation compared to the Slave Rebellion, but they will still have a difficult battle to fight — and the additional backup might just turn the tide, so to speak."

((OOC: I'm a bit unsure as to why having Information Oriented puts you at a disadvantage in a woodland; though I suppose I simply have to accept it. It does seem somewhat strange, since it goes straight against the whole fact that the Veolian armies hail from a jungle world with loads of, well, woodland.

@Mercury: I think it's a pity that the Climates of the planet the army hails from seems to have no impact on this puzzle, even though the environment an army trained in seems to me to be of primary relevance to what they can handle. Might you be convinced to take note of the Climates factor and account for it in your final reckoning of the situation?

As an aside: Man, do I regret taking that Information racial characteristic by the way, is has literally been useless for anything meaningful for years now... and now I even get penalized for having it; the bloody thing started out as a placeholder for pete's sake, and I was somehow convinced to take it for real :S))

[Pedro Condottiero]

"The Omnipotari Forces are willing to deploy in the South with or without the support of the Sundarian army. We understand the reasoning behind this proposal and believe both scenario's are viable. Either we force the situation in the South and swiftly take control of the large cities or we spread our forces to maintain an equal advantage all around Remunzia.

I believe the voice of the Sundarians is deciding in this matter."

[Lady-Fleet Admiral Lythia Nethorius]

((OOC: I'd like to note it's really confusing what the actual battleground is for the Western hemisphere. At this point it's completely unclear to me if the battle is going to take place on islands and the surface of water or if it's all going to be underwater. Could I maybe get a little more clarity on that, because to be honest I fail to see how an army composed mostly of infantry and artillery is not at a disadvantage underwater.))

"I don't think the addition of the Sundarian forces would make much of a difference." Lady-Fleet Admiral Nethorius interjected. "Bare in mind, the Sundarians will be at a disadvantage on and under the waters surface."

"The Slave Rebellion has dug in deeply in the Northern region. I believe it would be best to have the Sundarians back up the Veolians in that region, in order to deal with the advantage of the enemies defensive position."

[Joyce Andrasto]

"While we are willing to defer to the decision of the admiral," the Sundarian Laision responded, "We feel our army is not equipped nor trained to handle large bodies of water. Perhaps we are better suited to deal with a fortified position with our heavy weaponry and artillery support."

[Chriz]

((OOC: In the description for South it is saying large cities. Is the population distribution equally or is the South the only part with larger cities? I would like a little bit more information since this might influence my decision on where to send the Sundarian army))

[Mercury]

((OOC: The entire planet has cities in many locations, the south just has more larger ones, in the same way that the Northern Hemisphere on earth has more large cities than the southern hemisphere - not to say its only cities, or that there aren't any in the other half, just that there are clearly more and larger ones in this part than in the other sectors. Does that help clarify?))

[Senator Ardios Eldrilith]

"We thank you for your input. We seem to be in agreement that sending the Sundarian forces to the West will put them at a disadvantage and is not the most optimal use of their forces.

Therefor it is best to either send them North or South to support another army in dealing with the defensive zones. Since the population density is highest in the South we believe the additional forces there are most needed. With the large amount of Remunzian cities we expect a large amount of Slave Rebellion forces there as well.

The Ministry of Defence supports the original proposal of Admiral Alexander Giambastiani."

[Mercury]

((OOC: Instead of going into the details of why Information Oriented gives a penalty (harder to fight information-warfare in forest that hides everything), what the exact terrain of the Western Hemisphere is (think pacific ocean + Australia, fighting possible under water, above water and on land) and how it affects army composition, or why the Homeworld special doesn't provide bonuses or penalties to armies (not all races have homeworlds), I'll make a general statement:

You can pick and choose what your army looks like, including troop composition, arms, special forces, etc. They're from planets you designed which have many different options. But I cannot model all those factors into a coherent model, and even if I could, I don't think its worth the effort to do so. So while yes, infantry wouldn't be as effective as submarines under water, and yes, troops trained in the jungles of Veolia probably have some way of dealing with large clusters of trees, and yes, Information Oriented was a terrible choice, only the racial characteristics as listed provide bonusses or penalties for the designated area's.

There'll be opportunities to use your races unique abilities, your cultural heritages and your army compositions in upcoming choices either way.

I've now got the following distribution:

• North - Veolian Imperial Guard | (+1 combat ability) total: +1
• West - Astrian Colonial Marines First Army | total: 0
• East - Dewa Shaanti Sainikon | (+1 combat ability, +1 force sensitive, -1 information) total: +1
• South - Omnipotari Security Forces, 1st Sundarian Army | (+1 natural flight, +1 extra army) total: +2

With no protests, I'll post the dire, dire (^_^) consequences of your choice on Monday))

[Dragonmaster352]

((OOC: Which Monday?))

[Mercury]

((OOC: Apologies, I hadn't gotten to it yet. Below are the first two events! Two others coming asap))

Northern Forests

The Veolian Imperial Guard engaged with Slave Rebellion forces in the cold forests and rough terrain at the poles. Here, the Slave Rebellion was heavily entrenched and though the Veolian combat ability gave them some advantage, fighting was fierce and difficult.

The forests contained large number of Slave Rebellion troops who might reinforce other combat zones as the battle raged on.

Veolian specialists raised a possible solution: by burning down the forests, a large number of Slave Rebellion troops could be taken out and immediately remove the threat. However, this would have a large ecological impact.

Alternatively, troops could be sent in to take out the troops, but losses would likely be heavy.

Finally, the forests could be ignored and attacks focussed on strongpoints, but this would leave those slave rebellion troops free to attack others.

Southern Forests

Praetorian and Sundarian forces made a strong landing in the Southern Forests, establishing a beach-head between several large cities.

The advantageous position allowed them to leverage their large number of troops and the natural flight of the Praetorians most effectively and rolling up Slave Rebellion forces proceeded at a steady pace.

With so many cities though, it was difficult to decide on exact cities.

Freeing the Remunzian capital would be a symbolic victory, possibly rallying local Remunzians to the cause.

On the other hand, freeing less symbolic, but strategically more relevant targets might be much more fruitful would give an advantage in the rest of the fight in this area. Finally, there was a stronghold from which missiles were being launched, which could affect fights in all area's of battle.

Though the troops here would be able to do all of these, only one could be done at a time, and the first one would have the biggest impact on the rest of the battle, while whatever option they'd do last would probably not have a major effect on the invasion.

[Praetorian Empire]

The Praetorians prioritize their efforts in the Southern Forests. They start with taking out the stronghold that is launching missiles. This threat has to be neutralized first and the Praetorian army does this by force.

Secondly they focus their efforts on the Remunzian capital. Although the capital might only be a symbolic victory, the support of the Remunzian people will be very important in later stages of the invasion.

Finally the Praetorian Army will focus their efforts on strategically relevant targets that are required to secure the region.

[Sundarian Federation]

The Sundarian Forces support the Praetorian offensive with their heavy weaponry, focusing on strongpoints and heavily fortified positions with suppressive fire in order to prevent Praetorian casualties whilst using their artillery detachments to pin down enemy grounds forces and prevent them from mounting an effective counter against the Praetorian aerial attacks.

((OOC: The Sundarian Forces will offer full support and move in conjunction with the Praetorian forces.))

[Mercury]

Eastern Forest

The Veolian Peace Soldiers moved into the dense eastern forests, finding the enemy commander had taken up a guerilla tactics. The slave rebellion forces were spread out in tiny groups with only ad-hoc coordination, but due to the terrain, this proved quite effective - it also meant prisoners taken couldn't be interrogated for much useful information.

One strategy to take them out of the battle was to simply surround the forests and wait it out. This would lock up the Veolian troops and allow the enemy to dig in, create tunnels and make the terrain even worse, but it would limit Veolian casualties. After the rest of the planet was freed, they could go in with other armies.

The thing with this strategy is that it would mean more casualties overall, but fewer Veolian casualties. Alternatively, the Veolians could go in and suffer more casualties, but likely end the battle for this region through paying that price.

Western Oceans

The Astrian Colonial Marines First Army was facing a difficult challenge, with few advantages, though at least being cybernetic they were able to deal with the under-water conditions more readily than other armies.

Then again, most Slave Rebellion soldiers weren't exactly capable of breathing underwater either. Instead, they relied on Remunzian under-water facilities, ships, breathing tech and various other resources - oceanography was a big thing amongst Remunzians so the Slave Rebellion forces had found plenty of the tech they needed.

An interesting opportunity presented itself here - since the Slave Rebellion forces here were dependent on Remunzian technology, the ability of their army to function would be severely crippled without Remunzian technicians to keep it up and running.

Intelligence reports suggested that various key Remunzian engineers were being forced to work overtime to keep the Slave Rebellion forces at top efficiency.

Liberating them from the core of Slave Rebellion controlled territory, deep under water and within the enemy army, would be unlikely at best. However, a targetted strike with heavy weapons could take out the sections of enemy bases where the Remunzian engineers were located. This would kill the innocent engineers, but would provide a big strategic advantage and save many Astrian lives.

A choice had to be made about which lives were more important...

Space

Though fleets could offer minor support to ground operations, the invasion was primarily a planetary affair, leaving the fleet somewhat limited in what it could do. However, there was one consideration to make at the moment: whether or not to use orbital bombardments.

A strong orbital bombardment would be devastating to the planet, but likewise to the enemy. It would give an additional advantage in one of the four sectors, but at the cost of civilian Remunzian lives, whom the Slave Rebellion had no trouble using as Remunzian mix-breed human shields at their facilities.

[Veolian Commonwealth]

Northern Forests

Due to the fecund nature of the plants on Mirda, the veolian commanders of the Imperial Guard are used to forests burning down—and regrowing over the next few weeks. The tactic of burning down parts of the jungle is even used as the primary method of preventing the jungle from encroaching on several veolian cities, where the city walls are equipped with flame throwers that are used regularly to burn the young growth.

So, they think little of ordering the forests with high concentrations of Slave Rebellion soldiers burned down. Whether they are ignorant of the ecological impact, or simply do not care was not as clear. Following in the wake of the fires, strike teams of hemet veolians will be deployed to mop up any surviving Slave Rebellion soldiers.


Eastern Forest

House Dewa is well-known for it's mostly economical approach to problems. In war, they are little different. Having spend large sums on the training and equipment of even their rank-and-file soldiers, the Dewan generals are reluctant to sent them into the forests without backup, which seems to be a certain way to get them slaughtered by the Slave Rebellion guerilla. After a short deliberation, the generals decide to go forward with the the assault if it is backed up by orbital bombardment, if the orbital bombardment is not approved, they will simply entrench.

With the decision made, the comms officer contacted the orbital command:

"This is the communications officer of the Dewa Shaanti Sainikon to admiral Giambastiani. We request a full-scale orbital bombardment in the eastern forest to support our assault. Please confirm decision."

If the Union admiral orders the fleets to execute the orbital bombardment, the Dewa Shaanti Sainikon executes the assault and takes out the Slave Rebellion forces in the forests. If the bombardment is not approved, they will entrench themselves and lock down the guerilla warriors until reinforcements arrive.

[Alexander Giambastiani]

Admiral Giambastiani personally responded from the bridge of his flagship.

"full-scale orbital bombardment is denied. We can not lower ourselves to the level of the Slave Rebellion. Orbital support is limited to surgical strikes on specific grid coordinates only."

[Astrian Colonial Authority]

13th platoon had been waiting in orbit as the rest of their battalion had dropped down for the initial assault. When the brass had asked for volunteers to rescue a few Remunzian experts, they had stepped up before even hearing what they were volunteering for. For these ODSTs the question of which lives were more valuable was irrelevant, the moment they had stepped into their pods they already considered themselves dead. When having to choose between the dead and the living, the choice was obvious.

Up until a few moments ago they had been cluttering their platoon channel with idle banter. Joking with one-another, mocking the enemy and other nonsense. But now there was a tense silence as they waited for the green light...

Then the lieutenant shouted over the comms.

"Ok, Marines. We are green and very, very mean!"

The pods were launched. Twenty-five fireballs shot down toward the surface of Remunzia, slowing down as they approached the surface of the water.



Meanwhile the main force of the ACM First Army launched an attack on the Slave Rebellion both above and below the water surface. Using a combination of submarines that had been flown down from orbit and special munitions to fight underwater. The attack doubled as a distraction for the ODSTs of 13th platoon as they hit the water.

Leaving their pods as they sank to the bottom the ODSTs headed into the submerged base to rescue the Remunzian experts. Each of the five fireteams in the platoon carried a bomb, if the search and rescue proved impossible they would switch to asset denial. Killing the experts and themselves if needed.

[Mercury]

Northern Forests

The northern forests caught flame as the Veolians launched a warfare by fire attack, burning down large numbers of Slave Rebellion troops with them. The smoke from the fires obscured the sun in many area's, and the plumes could be seen from space, leaving a scarred, burned landscape behind that might cause one to wonder if the alternative - occupation - wouldn't have been better.

Regardless, the Veolian forces were victorious and soon only small pockets of resistance remained.

((OOC: The Northern Forests have been liberated. As long as one army is positioned here (any army), it will not cause further problems))

Southern Forests

The Sundarian and Praetorian Forces soon disabled the stronghold firing surface-to-space and surface-to-surface missiles, striking with exceptional firepower and heavy artillery support and taking it out of the equation.

The fight for the capital progressed much slower, but eventually the Union forces pushed through - Remunzia turned out to have more of a standing army than anticipated, as apparently someone had been training and organizing them. With the capital city liberated, these troops now formed a full fledged additional army that could be deployed.

However, this left the strategic points of the area in control of the Slave Rebellion, who made surgical strikes and a battle of attrition against the Union troops, leading to heavy casualties in the fighting and amongst civilians in the region as well.

((OOC: The Southern Forests are still contested. However, an additional army made up of Remunzians can now be deployed. The Praetorians can direct them as they see fit.))

Eastern Forests

Without orbital bombardment, the Veolian troops in the Eastern Forest surrounded the forests, as the Slave Rebellion forces dug tunnels and entrenched themselves deeply into the area. Getting them out would be costly, but at least they were contained for now.

((OOC: The Eastern Forests are still contested. Armies sent to dig them out will suffer losses, so it is recommended at least two armies are sent in.))

Western Oceans

The Astrian Colonial Authority forces launched their suicide attack to liberate the Remunzian engineers, but the enemy entrenchment was strong, and the distraction needed to go far deeper - both figuratively and literally - to get them the necessary support.

The results were mixed: a significant number of Remunzian engineers were saved, others were killed, but at a significant cost to the Astrian armed forces, many being killed in the fighting.

Without the Remunzian engineers to support the Slave Rebellion though, the remnants of the ACA forces were able to clear the sector.

((OOC: The Western Oceans have been liberated. As long as one army is positioned here (any army), it will not cause further problems.

However, the victorious Astrian Colonial Marines First Army did suffer heavy casualties. They are no longer available for battle until they have returned to their home planet where their wounded can be healed and their dead replaced by new recruits.))

[Mercury]

With two sectors secured and two still open, it was likely time to redistribute forces. The conditions of the two open sectors was as follows:

Southern Forests

Slave Rebellion forces were still in control of strategic points, and able to make surgical strikes and battle of attrition against the Union troops. Any army assigned to the sector would likely suffer heavy casualties.

Eastern Forests

The eastern forests were still contested, and the enemy had entrenched themselves in the area. As with the Southern Forests, any army assigned to the sector would likely suffer significant casualties.

((OOC: This is the last phase of the Remunzian invasion, and the choice here is a moral one, as well as a practical one: where will casualties be suffered. Any armies assigned to these sectors will likely suffer heavy casualties. If no armies are assigned, the Remunzian civilian population will likely suffer instead.

The Astrian Colonial Marines First Army is unavailable, and note that the Northern Forests and Western Ocean still require an army be assigned to them. However, there will be no further risk in these sectors and simply having the army there is enough to secure it.

Details of restoring an army that suffered heavy casualties will be discussed, though will probably entail a cost similar to (but less than) constructing an army.))

[Astrian Colonial Authority]

((OOC: Clarification request: Is what's left of the Astrian Colonial Marines First Army enough to hold the Western Oceans?

Side note: I am slightly confused about the results. Why is the main force launching a suicide attack? They're only short a single platoon, 25 soldiers among hundreds of thousands if not more. When did my army suddenly become retarded? They are not going to launch a full frontal assault on an entrenched enemy and charge like a bunch of headless chickens, they're going to keep their distance enough to keep the enemies attention focused on them but not get decimated.

You gave me two options for solving the problem in the area. I attempted to use a clever strategy to circumvent this by sending a minimal force in to rescue the engineers, using a distraction to give them a fighting chance. Should they have failed rescuing the engineers the force would blow themselves up along with the engineers. Either scenario would have left the Slave Rebellion without the engineers allowing the main force to dive (no pun intended) the enemy and gain the advantage. I admit I am disappointed that you're just going "nope, just my two options and nothing else." I'll accept it because you're the storyteller, I'm just a bit sad I can't participate any more in this thread because of this.))

[Mercury]

((OOC: The Astrian Colonial Marines First Army will not be enough to hold the Western Oceans.

The challenge for the Western Oceans posed a choice: leave the engineers, and suffer heavy losses as a result of Slave Rebellion efficiency, or blow up the engineers with a heavy bombardment, saving soldiers but killing the Remunzian engineers.

The point of this choice is that you have to pick one or the other, and take the good with the bad.

I appreciate that you tried to come up with a creative solution - those were explicitly mentioned as being an option. However, the post on the Western Oceans also made it clear that a rescue would be "unlikely at best". As such, avoiding the choice by sending in a few strike teams who then rescue the engineers while suffering only minor losses isn't a valid choice - it was explicitly excluded as being an option.

This left me to interpret the actions as best I could. I could have adjudicated that the rescue attempt was, in fact, a form of heavy bombardments. From your current post, it seems that should have happened. However, at the time it seemed to me that your primary objective was rescuing the engineers, and you even posted something along the lines of at the cost of their own lives if need be. So I interpreted this as the first choice: spare the engineers. Which you did - in fact, you did more than that, you rescued many of them, denying them to the enemy and securing them for your own side.

However, that rescue cannot come without a cost, and my ruling was that you'd default closer to the first choice, sparing the engineers but suffering losses as a result - a noble sacrifice which will mean those engineers will be available for the Remunzians when they rebuild after the war. Additionally, you also took out the Slave Rebellion troops in the region!

I feel this is a fair outcome, given the circumstances. The Astrians didn't suddenly become stupidly suicidal, they made a heroic sacrifice for the Remunzian people.

As for not being able to participate any further - I wouldn't worry about that. The only thing left to be done is assign troops to regions. That wasn't really an Astrian choice (though I suppose they could have volunteered to sacrifice their lives in favour of others, but honestly that's already what happened so it'd be a bit redundant). There will not be another round of choices after that, because I feel the event has gone on long enough.

I hope this post will clarify some of the choices made and that we can continue from here. If not, lets talk out of bounds this weekend :)))