Fwurg

[Brend]

There is some ambiguity with regard to how loosing a weapon impacts your ability to fight. The Lightsaber Championship OOC thread goes into this already.

The situation is as follows: Both Jedi and Sith used shii-cho as defence in the previous round. The rules of the parry mechanism says that your offensive style of this round is determined by the defence style of the previous round. So both use shii-cho this round for the attack. However, both their weapons were destroyed at the same time.

For shii-cho you need a lightsaber, but their lightsabers are destroyed, so they cannot use shii-cho this round for our attack.

Now there are two interpretations possible:

1. The attack this round is shii-cho, they are not allowed to use shii-cho, therefore they have no attack.
2. The style this round is shii-cho, they may not use the shii-cho style so their attacks are just their force levels (that is: unarmed attacks).

Which of these is correct? How do unarmed attacks factor into this?

[Brend]

As I have heard no other opinions, I propose the following: We adhere to interpretation 1.

This generalizes to:

• If you do not meet the Usage Limitation of a combat style you can not use it to attack or defend with.
• If you do not have an active combat style you can not make an attack.
• The parry mechanism is already handles weapon switches and style switches, so we'll use it to match handle unarmed combat as well.

This creates a problem with the unarmed attacks rules, so I also propose to introduce a basic style for them. This style is just the current rules for Unarmed Combat. By putting them in a combat style we take away all the ambiguity of when you can use it: since it is a normal combat style (that is known by everyone, including starting Jedi) the parry mechanism handles it elegantly.

Unarmed Combat Style

Even when unarmed, Jedi are formidable foes in combat. Jedi (and other combatants) can engage in unarmed combat without knowing specialized combat styles.

Description: Universal combat style for unarmed combat

Prerequisites: None

Usage Limitation: None

Basic Statistics
A combatant can attack at most a number of rings equal to the number of defence rings needed to wound him. So, a jedi can attack at most three rings, an operative at most two, and all others at most one.

• One-ring unarmed attacks are piercing.
• Two-ring unarmed attacks are cutting + piercing.
• Three-ring unarmed attacks are slashing + cutting + piercing.

A combatant always defends on all three rings.

This style gives no further bonusses to attack or defence. This style has no special manoeuvres.

[Elmer]

looks good to me.

Question: Even when you are holding a weapon, can you switch to Unarmed Combat Style? (Though this style does not provide a bonus.)
example: You are holding a bow or sniper rifle, and somebody is coming for you, can you switch to the Unarmed Combat Style while still holding your weapon? (I think this should be possible. Giving a hit with a gun can be quite effective :) ).

[Brend]

I see no problem with that. However, the weapons would not convey any if its bonuses. So a hyper-specialized sniper rifle for the '360 No-Scope Style' would not offer its +2 piercing to your unarmed attack...


Keep in mind that this is but an abstraction. If you wield a weapon that effectively prohibits you from using your arms, and you try to DCA with punches, chances are that the ST will just flat-out deny your attack in grounds of "you can't use your arms for that". You are, of course, free to make a weapon switch along with your style switch ^_^

[Elmer]

'I got my blaster set to stun, so I claim stun bonus when I pistol-whip you'. That does not apply naturally ^_^.

[Brend]

If no one objects, I will be putting these changes to the wiki in the coming weekend.

[Elmer]

I do not object

[Brend]

While looking around for things I need to change, I hit a snag. If we implement the Unarmed Combat Style, we should fix the other weapons as well.

The rules for Non-Saber combat state:

When using these weapons, you generally cannot use a Combat Style (most Combat Styles require lightsabers). Additionally, they only attack on one ring.

This conflicts with the proposed "If you do not have an active combat style you can not make an attack."


I see two solutions. 1) We create a broader 'Trained Combatant Style' that encompasses all normal weapon combat and unarmed combat. This style represents a broad training with multiple kinds of weapons. 2) We drop the Unarmed Combat Style, and note that any weapon or unarmed combat has an implicit style associated with it.

Personally, I prefer option 1. While both options allow us to define how unarmed combat and weapons interact with the combat system, option 1 makes this interaction explicit. I think that explicit is better than implicit.

[Elmer]

I prefer option 1 as well. The whole idea of the unarmed combat style was to get rid of the implicitly and get the whole thing clear.

[Brend]

If nobody else has an opinion, we will put this life in the weekend of 2013-04-20.

[Mercury]

I would clarify this part: "A combatant can attack at most a number of rings equal to the number of defence rings needed to wound him. So, a jedi can attack at most three rings, an operative at most two, and all others at most one. "

It suggests that Sith attack on at most one ring. A slight rewording like

"So for example, a jedi can attack at most three rings, an operative might attack at two rings and a cantina-wench can attack at most one"

would resolve this apparent confusion.

Note: this is not criticism to the concept, merely to the wording.

[Brend]

Agreed.

[Brend]

We have added the Trained Combatant Style to the wiki, and updated the necessary pages to refer to it instead of making vague claims on how combat without a combat style works.

We have also updated the Parry Mechanism page to be a little more structured, and to include the new rules on having no combat style.

We have also updated Jedi Creation to start everyone off with the Trained Combatant Style. I will make a seperate post for this so everyone knows to add that style to their Jedi, and I will ask Mercury to update the character builder to include that style.

@Mecury: Will you update the character builder to start everyone off with the Trained Combatant Style (id: rules:trained_combatant_style)

[Mercury]

Yokai! It may take a while before I get to this.