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Mercury
The Lifebringer Clans
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Chriz
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The Lifebringer Clans » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:30 pm
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The Lifebringer Clans - Faction
I'm looking forward to the new star rules. Because of the way the terraforming rules turned out, it's quite expensive to terraform the many moons of a trinary system. This means I'm considering switching to another method of cramming as many goldilocks zones as possible into my system, using either a Volcanic Greenhouse or a Heavy Gravity World special.
I see you also have a redesign of Heliosheaths and Ctonian planets in mind. I think this is a good thing. Right now they're almost mandatory, and if I could redesign my system with the new star rules as they stand, I'd take a size 12 Heliosheath, which I don't think is quite what should be happening...
I am a little worried, however, that if significant changes are made to how they work, it will be very difficult to retcon, because people are (obviously) very dependent on them currently.
I see you also have a redesign of Heliosheaths and Ctonian planets in mind. I think this is a good thing. Right now they're almost mandatory, and if I could redesign my system with the new star rules as they stand, I'd take a size 12 Heliosheath, which I don't think is quite what should be happening...
I am a little worried, however, that if significant changes are made to how they work, it will be very difficult to retcon, because people are (obviously) very dependent on them currently.
Veolian Commonwealth » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:17 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
The Lifebringer Clans wrote:This means I'm considering switching to another method of cramming as many goldilocks zones as possible into my system, using either a Volcanic Greenhouse or a Heavy Gravity World special.
This is also what I was considering. Goldilocks zones appear to be the one type of zone to rule them all. Of course this is only true in the long run, as a system cram-full of asteroid belts has a
production that is way off the chart even at early stages of development.And a second point is the flexibility of the system. I think it is possible to come up with creative technologies allowing much better things in cold and hot orbits -- effectively giving them more flexibility as the technologies are not yet defined.
The Lifebringer Clans » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:13 pm
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The Lifebringer Clans - Faction
I've briefly discussed this with Remco once or twice, but I think I'll just put it out there for discussion. A lot of rules have been created and altered over the course of the game, and some more may need to be changed (I'm looking at you, heliosheaths ;>_>) What are the opinions on a reset of system/faction development after the rulebase has become stable?
Perhaps every player can start with a certain amount of each type of zone, perhaps each player can spend x amount of tax on developing their system and faction.
Perhaps every player can start with a certain amount of each type of zone, perhaps each player can spend x amount of tax on developing their system and faction.
Praetorian Empire » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:58 pm
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Praetorian Empire - Faction
I am opposed to a complete reset. We would lose everything that we have build up to now if we do this. Having the option to make changes to your system is enough in my oppinion.
What i know about the current rules and the options given by the admin:
Because of the rule changes you are allowed to make changes on your system. It is probably best to wait till the rules on the new stars are final and the specials like the chtonian and heliosheath are done as well.
When possible the turn reports should stay valid. Try to keep your system close to the original idea of your system.
For me this should be possible but if the amount of metals for the Chtonian changes for example i will not be able to keep my turn reports valid.
The admin was not sure about moving Zones yet, it will probably be spending the tax that they are worth on another planet or just moving them as they are. In my opinion placing zones that are worth the tax of the removed zones is a good solution. In my case i would either have to move my cold orbit crystal zones to a natural life planet when i can spend the tax that they are worth. Or i would have to make IC preparations for the OOC change by building the crystal zones already so i could make Rare Elements zones for the removed zones.
What i know about the current rules and the options given by the admin:
Because of the rule changes you are allowed to make changes on your system. It is probably best to wait till the rules on the new stars are final and the specials like the chtonian and heliosheath are done as well.
When possible the turn reports should stay valid. Try to keep your system close to the original idea of your system.
For me this should be possible but if the amount of metals for the Chtonian changes for example i will not be able to keep my turn reports valid.
The admin was not sure about moving Zones yet, it will probably be spending the tax that they are worth on another planet or just moving them as they are. In my opinion placing zones that are worth the tax of the removed zones is a good solution. In my case i would either have to move my cold orbit crystal zones to a natural life planet when i can spend the tax that they are worth. Or i would have to make IC preparations for the OOC change by building the crystal zones already so i could make Rare Elements zones for the removed zones.
Last edited by Praetorian Empire on Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Veolian Commonwealth » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:05 pm
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Veolian Commonwealth - Faction
I have mixed feelings about a reset. It is true that a lot of things have changed since the start of the game, but this is to be expected with a home-brewn rule set.
What you suggest is seems like a reset of the complete economy. This would amount to everyone rebuilding their system, recalculation of all open market prices, and possibly a different situation with regards to the
hurdles of the last few turns. This would tie in with a lot of diplomacy, as the different measures wouldn't have been proposed if the economy hadn't developed the way it did. Since economy and diplomacy are so tied up in each other all diplomatic relations be have to be reset to zero as well, should we do a reset.
On one hand it might be good for the game now that 'play testing' is over. A full reset might allow some to get into the game more, while it would allow others to redesign their system in a way they feel better fit to their ideas.
On the other hand, I wouldn't like the current diplomatic situation to be reset. We are finally getting somewhere, and large scale cooperation is starting up just about now. It would take at least 6 or 7 turns before we would be back in such a position should we reset.
I don't think the rule base will become stable any time soon. Every aspect that will be added influences the other parts of the system. For example, no rules for fleets or violent conflict have been defined yet -- but we can be sure that they will tie in with the economy for upkeep, construction and research, and military might goes together with diplomacy like lightsabers go together with jedi.
Any change in the rule base will lead to the rule base becoming unstable (at least for a moderate period) as the new interplay is worked out and the players wrap their heads around the new options. This is mostly why the meta-rules specifically mention this: "The system was designed from scratch and we took efforts to calculate everything carefully. However, it is possible that mistakes have entered the system. If this is the case, we may apply changes to the game rules to fix those mistakes. When this happens you always have a right to change your world and characters to compensate for the new changes." (quoted from Meta)
In effect we are all evolving our system and style of play in harmony with the introduction of new rules or changes. In my opinion it would be a waste of background (both in the diplomatic and story sense) to do a full reset of the game -- we can all change our system as the rules unfold and develop.
What you suggest is seems like a reset of the complete economy. This would amount to everyone rebuilding their system, recalculation of all open market prices, and possibly a different situation with regards to the
hurdles of the last few turns. This would tie in with a lot of diplomacy, as the different measures wouldn't have been proposed if the economy hadn't developed the way it did. Since economy and diplomacy are so tied up in each other all diplomatic relations be have to be reset to zero as well, should we do a reset.On one hand it might be good for the game now that 'play testing' is over. A full reset might allow some to get into the game more, while it would allow others to redesign their system in a way they feel better fit to their ideas.
On the other hand, I wouldn't like the current diplomatic situation to be reset. We are finally getting somewhere, and large scale cooperation is starting up just about now. It would take at least 6 or 7 turns before we would be back in such a position should we reset.
I don't think the rule base will become stable any time soon. Every aspect that will be added influences the other parts of the system. For example, no rules for fleets or violent conflict have been defined yet -- but we can be sure that they will tie in with the economy for upkeep, construction and research, and military might goes together with diplomacy like lightsabers go together with jedi.
Any change in the rule base will lead to the rule base becoming unstable (at least for a moderate period) as the new interplay is worked out and the players wrap their heads around the new options. This is mostly why the meta-rules specifically mention this: "The system was designed from scratch and we took efforts to calculate everything carefully. However, it is possible that mistakes have entered the system. If this is the case, we may apply changes to the game rules to fix those mistakes. When this happens you always have a right to change your world and characters to compensate for the new changes." (quoted from Meta)
In effect we are all evolving our system and style of play in harmony with the introduction of new rules or changes. In my opinion it would be a waste of background (both in the diplomatic and story sense) to do a full reset of the game -- we can all change our system as the rules unfold and develop.
Mercury » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:34 pm
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Mercury - Storyteller
Naturally I am open to any suggestions if a large portion of the players desires it, including a reset. I do not currently have plans for it however.
As mentioned, if the rules change (which happens a lot still ^_^) you get to change your character / system based on that. The exact details depend on the situation and the desired changes - there's no hard rule on that yet, though changing your Jedi's Force Powers based on a rule change in the Terraformation mechanics obviously wouldn't fly.
As mentioned, if the rules change (which happens a lot still ^_^) you get to change your character / system based on that. The exact details depend on the situation and the desired changes - there's no hard rule on that yet, though changing your Jedi's Force Powers based on a rule change in the Terraformation mechanics obviously wouldn't fly.
7 posts (analysis)
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