OOC Commentary on [ Jedi Temple ] Training with the Xomlirga, second try
Brend
Jhovall
Mercury
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OOC Commentary on [ Jedi Temple ] Training with the Xomlirga, second try
Brend » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:46 pm
((Moderator: This is the OOC discussion that followed on the quoted post in [ Jedi Temple ] Training with the Xomlirga, second try. It is archived here for easier referencing. Please note that this discussion was originally in the context of that thread, with the players of Ajava, Jaicen and ST Mercury.))
In all honesty, if you actually do need those two droids I do not think the Jedi would let you go on a mission like this. You would simply be too vulnerable to do any serious field work. We made a special Power to set you up with TG-100 and to allow "normal" missions, but if Jaicen has this much bagage, he is not going on any missions at all. Though that's just my opinion as a player (and incidentally also Ajava's opinion in this case).
The Jedi are not really big on material belongings. While some of them own a few things (such as lightsabers, jedi robes, in Ajava's case a composite bow), not many will own multiple droids. Nishra is the quartermaster, and also a Jedi Master, who hands out equipment such as the gear you are carrying. We haven't gotten to her introduction yet, in the introduction mission...
I'll leave the arbitration of both the droids and health situation (and the quartermaster) up to Mercury, since he is the ST. I'll wait with further posts with Ajava until Mercury has posted, so this doesn't escalate too quickly.
Jaicen Hedoss wrote:"These are my other droids, and they normally are in my room. The medical droid analyses my physical condition at the end of every day and administers my medication, so I do not die. The other one I use for the maintenance on TG-100 and my hovercraft, since I cannot get out of this chair to do it myself."
"I wanted to bring them along so if an accident happened or I got a seizure or something the droid could provide me with personal, medical attention on the ship."
"I did not convince Nishra, I have never even met her."
((OOC: I have actually never met her... or can I assume I have?))
In all honesty, if you actually do need those two droids I do not think the Jedi would let you go on a mission like this. You would simply be too vulnerable to do any serious field work. We made a special Power to set you up with TG-100 and to allow "normal" missions, but if Jaicen has this much bagage, he is not going on any missions at all. Though that's just my opinion as a player (and incidentally also Ajava's opinion in this case).
The Jedi are not really big on material belongings. While some of them own a few things (such as lightsabers, jedi robes, in Ajava's case a composite bow), not many will own multiple droids. Nishra is the quartermaster, and also a Jedi Master, who hands out equipment such as the gear you are carrying. We haven't gotten to her introduction yet, in the introduction mission...
I'll leave the arbitration of both the droids and health situation (and the quartermaster) up to Mercury, since he is the ST. I'll wait with further posts with Ajava until Mercury has posted, so this doesn't escalate too quickly.
Jhovall » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:57 pm
- Jhovall
- Storyteller
Allright, I just thought it would d add more roleplay value and discussions like these if I brought them along. I thought it would be like a normal paraplegic wheelchair person, you can do almost everything yourself, but to get into bed and to adress minor medical issues (Like brushing your teeth and taking your medicine) you would need a nurse.
Mercury » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:43 pm
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Mercury - Storyteller
I think its a creative idea to make Jaicen dependent on a medical droid - certainly fits with his condition. I don't have a conceptual problem with that, but I do have some practical issues that are relevant to it.
While it limits Jaicen to some degree, his dependence also limits the missions he can go on. Case and point, this mission is basically an archetypal example of a mission where bringing these droids would be inappropriate, for reasons that are too numerous and too obvious to get into.
It also raises the question of who's going to roleplay all the additional characters - in all fairness, I don't think you should, since it would give you too many roles to fill in the game and too much screen-time. But as Storyteller, I don't want to be roleplaying your pet robots either. I have my own NPC's to worry about, and I doubt I could do it consistently with other storytellers.
Now, that being said, I want to make a caveat on my objections: Jedi sometimes have their iconic sidekicks. I see TG-100 as Jaicens sidekick, no different from that science robot that T'sal brings everywhere. And that's fine. These cohort-style characters are an extension of the PC and function as such. I think one is enough for that however.
Now, if you - for roleplay purposes - want a medical droid to help Jaicen with various parts of his life, I think that's fine - however, it should be confined to "down-time" rather than "mission-time". I would imagine that TG-100 would help out and that the medical droid might have prepared medication ahead of time.
More generally speaking, if Jaicen is healthy and capable enough to go on missions, then he should be healthy and capable enough to survive for a while without medical supervision. If he will die if he goes for a day without a medical droid tending to him, then he is not in a state where he can go on missions at all.
Now, that's my generic view on this. Let me address the specifics of this mission:
There might be missions in which it would be appropriate to bring a medical droid or an astromech droid. It depends on the mission, but I'm sure everyone can imagine such scenario's. In such cases, the Quartermaster could provide those, and if they are provided, surely Jaicen too can make use of those resources. In such a case, I would roleplay these droids as NPCs.
However, there is one important caveat to that situation - Shebi Ajava is the ranking Jedi on the mission. And barring protest from the Quartermaster, she's the one who decides whether such things are, or are not, appropriate to bring along.
Given these facts, I think perhaps Jaicen will have to do without the additional droids. Regardless, I think it would be fair to say that the ship has a navigation computer (otherwise it can't jump through hyperspace), means to repair the ship if it should be damaged (otherwise it would be stupid) and the medical supplies Jaicen will need, such as medication and the likes, as well as first aid and medical supplies in case someone is hurt.
Does this make sense?
While it limits Jaicen to some degree, his dependence also limits the missions he can go on. Case and point, this mission is basically an archetypal example of a mission where bringing these droids would be inappropriate, for reasons that are too numerous and too obvious to get into.
It also raises the question of who's going to roleplay all the additional characters - in all fairness, I don't think you should, since it would give you too many roles to fill in the game and too much screen-time. But as Storyteller, I don't want to be roleplaying your pet robots either. I have my own NPC's to worry about, and I doubt I could do it consistently with other storytellers.
Now, that being said, I want to make a caveat on my objections: Jedi sometimes have their iconic sidekicks. I see TG-100 as Jaicens sidekick, no different from that science robot that T'sal brings everywhere. And that's fine. These cohort-style characters are an extension of the PC and function as such. I think one is enough for that however.
Now, if you - for roleplay purposes - want a medical droid to help Jaicen with various parts of his life, I think that's fine - however, it should be confined to "down-time" rather than "mission-time". I would imagine that TG-100 would help out and that the medical droid might have prepared medication ahead of time.
More generally speaking, if Jaicen is healthy and capable enough to go on missions, then he should be healthy and capable enough to survive for a while without medical supervision. If he will die if he goes for a day without a medical droid tending to him, then he is not in a state where he can go on missions at all.
Now, that's my generic view on this. Let me address the specifics of this mission:
There might be missions in which it would be appropriate to bring a medical droid or an astromech droid. It depends on the mission, but I'm sure everyone can imagine such scenario's. In such cases, the Quartermaster could provide those, and if they are provided, surely Jaicen too can make use of those resources. In such a case, I would roleplay these droids as NPCs.
However, there is one important caveat to that situation - Shebi Ajava is the ranking Jedi on the mission. And barring protest from the Quartermaster, she's the one who decides whether such things are, or are not, appropriate to bring along.
Given these facts, I think perhaps Jaicen will have to do without the additional droids. Regardless, I think it would be fair to say that the ship has a navigation computer (otherwise it can't jump through hyperspace), means to repair the ship if it should be damaged (otherwise it would be stupid) and the medical supplies Jaicen will need, such as medication and the likes, as well as first aid and medical supplies in case someone is hurt.
Does this make sense?
Jhovall » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:01 pm
- Jhovall
- Storyteller
Basically the additional droids are definitely NOT meant to be role-playable nor extra characters, they are more supportive and do not have a will, nor will I send them away to do important stuff. The TG-100 is a sidekick yes. And I brought the medical droid and the astromech droid along for the 'down-time' in the plane and to fix Jaicen if he gets hurt on the planet or something. The same is with the astromech droid, he will only be there to repair TG-100 if he gets hurt and will remain on the ship. That is why I said they will remain on the ship. Jaicen won't die if he goes for a day without the medical droid, that'd be stupid :).
I do not agree that the Quartermaster provides my droids, they are necessary for Jaicens off-time life. You should see it as an extention of Jaicen, just like his light-saber, and will not be a seperate NPC nor need to be roleplayed.
Of course Ajava is the one who decides if I may bring the droids with me in the end, but why shouldn't someone be allowed to bring his droids along during the trip if they are helpful to his surival
I do not agree that the Quartermaster provides my droids, they are necessary for Jaicens off-time life. You should see it as an extention of Jaicen, just like his light-saber, and will not be a seperate NPC nor need to be roleplayed.
Of course Ajava is the one who decides if I may bring the droids with me in the end, but why shouldn't someone be allowed to bring his droids along during the trip if they are helpful to his surival
Mercury » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:01 pm
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Mercury - Storyteller
I think perhaps part of the issue is that Jaicen is worried about what might go wrong during the mission - I can tell this from you wanting to take droids in case Jaicen gets hurt or in case TG-100 gets damaged. This is one of Jaicens first real missions, so that type of anxiety is normal, and you roleplay it very well! Perhaps the roleplay has leaked OOC a bit? This happens to good roleplayers sometimes ^_^
First off let me reassure you OOCly that Jaicen is not in immediate danger of dying - I'm not a jerk who will kill your character because you failed a single check.
Even if he needs assistance with his medical needs, Jaicen need not (and in fact should not) be so dependent on a medical droid that he dies without it tending to him. As I said, that would make it unethical to send him on a mission, as I'm sure you'll agree.
It might even be a good roleplay opportunity for you during the trip to play Jaicen adapting to doing certain medical tasks himself or with TG-100 instead of using a medical droid. Roleplaying out the discomforts that no doubt come with such actions would certainly impress me, and I think you are up to the challenge!
Regarding repairs to TG-100, Jaicen has more than enough skills in programming and mechanical engineering to tend to the droid without help, so a separate droid for this really is superfluous, imho.
More generally speaking, Jaicen is a Jedi, and en-route to become a Knight. Part of that journey is overcoming his fears and facing challenges and learning independence. I believe Jaicen is ready to be his own man, and has no need of agents to act in his best interest or on his behalf. He's a strong and capable figure in his own right, with a brilliant mind, even if his body limits him somewhat.
Travelling and acting without relying on droids (beyond TG-100 who is really an extended part of him) is part of the journey to Knighthood, and I feel that Jaicen would be ready for that step.
I didn't say the Quartermaster provided your droids - rather I said that the Quartermaster provides, generically speaking, the goods you bring on a mission. Jaicen is free (within reason of course) to have a private droid in his quarters at the Jedi Temple to deal with his normal needs - I think a medical droid there would make perfect sense. Whether he got that from the Quartermaster, bought it himself or received it as part of his medical treatment through Obamacare really doesn't factor into that.
However, a medical droid that goes on missions would really be something handed out by the Quartermaster - it would, in fact, be unreasonable to demand that Jaicen risks his expensive personal droid which he needs for his medical condition as part of a Jedi mission. After all, Jaicen wouldn't want to lose his medical droid if something went awry during the mission and be stuck trying to figure out how to get a replacement.
Regardless, I think this discussion is perhaps a bit too long and too detailed for this location. I therefore propose that we do not bring the droids on this mission - they really aren't suited for zero-technology jungle planets, and I want to get started. Further discussion on the topic, should you feel this would be beneficial, can be done in one of the OOC forums.
((Moderator: End of the original discussion.))
First off let me reassure you OOCly that Jaicen is not in immediate danger of dying - I'm not a jerk who will kill your character because you failed a single check.
Even if he needs assistance with his medical needs, Jaicen need not (and in fact should not) be so dependent on a medical droid that he dies without it tending to him. As I said, that would make it unethical to send him on a mission, as I'm sure you'll agree.
It might even be a good roleplay opportunity for you during the trip to play Jaicen adapting to doing certain medical tasks himself or with TG-100 instead of using a medical droid. Roleplaying out the discomforts that no doubt come with such actions would certainly impress me, and I think you are up to the challenge!
Regarding repairs to TG-100, Jaicen has more than enough skills in programming and mechanical engineering to tend to the droid without help, so a separate droid for this really is superfluous, imho.
More generally speaking, Jaicen is a Jedi, and en-route to become a Knight. Part of that journey is overcoming his fears and facing challenges and learning independence. I believe Jaicen is ready to be his own man, and has no need of agents to act in his best interest or on his behalf. He's a strong and capable figure in his own right, with a brilliant mind, even if his body limits him somewhat.
Travelling and acting without relying on droids (beyond TG-100 who is really an extended part of him) is part of the journey to Knighthood, and I feel that Jaicen would be ready for that step.
I do not agree that the Quartermaster provides my droids, they are necessary for Jaicens off-time life. You should see it as an extension of Jaicen, just like his light-saber, and will not be a separate NPC nor need to be roleplayed.
I didn't say the Quartermaster provided your droids - rather I said that the Quartermaster provides, generically speaking, the goods you bring on a mission. Jaicen is free (within reason of course) to have a private droid in his quarters at the Jedi Temple to deal with his normal needs - I think a medical droid there would make perfect sense. Whether he got that from the Quartermaster, bought it himself or received it as part of his medical treatment through Obamacare really doesn't factor into that.
However, a medical droid that goes on missions would really be something handed out by the Quartermaster - it would, in fact, be unreasonable to demand that Jaicen risks his expensive personal droid which he needs for his medical condition as part of a Jedi mission. After all, Jaicen wouldn't want to lose his medical droid if something went awry during the mission and be stuck trying to figure out how to get a replacement.
Regardless, I think this discussion is perhaps a bit too long and too detailed for this location. I therefore propose that we do not bring the droids on this mission - they really aren't suited for zero-technology jungle planets, and I want to get started. Further discussion on the topic, should you feel this would be beneficial, can be done in one of the OOC forums.
((Moderator: End of the original discussion.))
Jhovall » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:45 am
- Jhovall
- Storyteller
Jaicen is certainly scared that something might go wrong, he is going to a place he is completely not suited to. I am trying to roleplay this anxiety, he is pretty new to all of this anyways.
Don't worry, the anxiety is of course not OC, If you are a jerk who let my character die because of stupid reasons this will not be my roleplay forum :).
It will be indeed be unethical to send him on a mission. But I still do not see OC the reason, besides, It will be a learning experience for him, not to take them with me on a trip and leave them behind on the ship.
Repairing the TG-100 though is a bit hard if you are confined to a hoverchair with limited arm/leg movement, even if you have the know-how.
Obama care does not provide droids I think :P. I think I can ask the Quartermaster next time to provide me a replacement medical droid, but it would not be the same of course, as his own personal droid. I think it would be unreasonable to demand it, but also understandable that people are allowed to bring their own stuff. A temporary replacement could be provided by Quartermaster if the droid gets destroyed. (Or Jaicen does have a good insurance).
Don't worry, the anxiety is of course not OC, If you are a jerk who let my character die because of stupid reasons this will not be my roleplay forum :).
It will be indeed be unethical to send him on a mission. But I still do not see OC the reason, besides, It will be a learning experience for him, not to take them with me on a trip and leave them behind on the ship.
Repairing the TG-100 though is a bit hard if you are confined to a hoverchair with limited arm/leg movement, even if you have the know-how.
Obama care does not provide droids I think :P. I think I can ask the Quartermaster next time to provide me a replacement medical droid, but it would not be the same of course, as his own personal droid. I think it would be unreasonable to demand it, but also understandable that people are allowed to bring their own stuff. A temporary replacement could be provided by Quartermaster if the droid gets destroyed. (Or Jaicen does have a good insurance).
Brend » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:16 pm
Jhovall wrote:It will be indeed be unethical to send him on a mission. But I still do not see OC the reason...
If Jaicen's health is so poor that he can not survive without constant medical aid, it would be unethical to send him on a mission because of the high chance of him not receiving constant care during the mission. That is, he would be knowingly sent into a situation that will most likely kill him.
I'm note exactly sure what there is about that that needs further OOC reasons.
Jhovall wrote:Obama care does not provide droids I think :P. I think I can ask the Quartermaster next time to provide me a replacement medical droid, but it would not be the same of course, as his own personal droid. I think it would be unreasonable to demand it, but also understandable that people are allowed to bring their own stuff. A temporary replacement could be provided by Quartermaster if the droid gets destroyed. (Or Jaicen does have a good insurance).
I think a relevant thing here is that most Jedi don't have much "own stuff". They might own some small things, but most of their mission equipment is provided for by the Order (even lightsabers for all padawan and many knights). In most ways the Jedi Order is better compared with a monastic order than with an academy: the padawan are also part of this order, they are not mere students. This is the Jedi Order, not the Jedi Academy.
Instead of owning and worrying about stuff they need, Jedi can simply go to the quartermaster and ask for the things they will need on their mission. Note that the Order also takes away any requirement for insurace: the Order simply makes sure you have the things you need. Whether that is a water purifier, a sturdy backpack, a medical droid, or a star destroyer.
This actually makes a lot of sense. The Jedi teach detachment from material things, and they are sent into diverse situation. For example, I do not think that Jaicen has food rations, a water purifier, or sleeping equipment for a jungle planet lying around in his room...
It used to that this aspect is roleplayed, with padawans needing to go and talk to quartermaster Nishra to actually get their equipment. Over time this has slipped away a bit, but ICly everyone is still getting most of their stuff from Nishra.
As an ST I will pay more attention to this: I think that next time Jedi want to get equipment, we should do the roleplaying part with quartermaster Nishra again. It might take up one posting cycle, but I think it is a very relevant part of the RP related to the Jedi values, and it clears up possibly faulty assumptions by new players.
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