Fwurg

[Brend]

In light of the new character request, Mercury and I propose the following Force power (also on the wiki).

Control Machine

Fluff.

● Power: Through meditation, you can connect to a complex machine provided that machine has a DEM-Crystal. You can attune to a single machine.

● Rank 1: You can give basic commands such as movement, carrying, or pressing elevator buttons to the machine with which you are connected by means of the Force. This power works only on short range (approximately ten meters).

●● Rank 2: The speed and accuracy of your control over the machine increases to a point where it can aid you in combat. For purposes of combat, you and the machine are counted as a single entity, using your stats (and not the machine's stats). This allows you to have more options for Direct Combat Actions and Advantage Actions, for example. This power works only on personal range (no more than one bodylength away from you).

●●● Rank 3: The jedi can meditate to connect to the machine on such a level that it seems as if you are inhabiting the machine itself. You can use the machine's sensors to perceive the world, and you use the machine's frame to manipulate the world. When using this force power, you control the machine — instead of — your own body, effectively rendering your own body inactive.

Note that complex machines with DEM-Crystals are not available on the Open Market / Black Market / Any Market. Jedi will have to acquire such machines through other means.

As can be seen, the Fluff still needs to be done, and the name could use some work.

Questions, comments, critique all welcome!

[Elmer]

Hmmmm, the use of a DEM crystal seems very nice. (Does DEM stands for anything?) When I look at it, then I would say why not focussing the power more on the crystal(s)? So in the line of: 'With meditation the Jedi can connect to a DEM crystal'. This crystal in turn can be connected to a machine, to a computer or to something else (star destroyer?). I am sure there are more uses :)

The level characteristics basically stay the same: 1: give basic commands through the crystal, 2:own stats can be projected via crystal, 3: jedi can be crystal

The difference is that focussing the power on the crystal keeps a nicer level of mysticism in the setting in my opinion but also gives a little more flexibility in the power while it will still exactly do what jhovall wants with his Jedi.

[Brend]

(Does DEM stands for anything?)

Yes. But, I'm not telling you what to preserve the mysticism ^_^

This crystal in turn can be connected to a machine, to a computer or to something else (star destroyer?). I am sure there are more uses

This is already exactly what we envision. With 'complex machine' we literally mean a 'complex machine', we do not care whether this is a droid, space ship or science probe.

So if you build your own Millenium Falcon, taking into account the need for a DEM crystal, you can attune to your own space ship. All powers would work as described right now. The clue here is, you can only be attuned to a single machine, and attuning costs a lot of time (read: under normal circumstances only outside of missions).

[Elmer]

In that case it is just a matter of semantics where I prefer the semantics focusing on the crystals and not the machine ^^

[Jhovall]

What exactly is the range of the 3th power?

Name it : Ghost in a shell -power

[Brend]

What exactly is the range of the 3th power?

That is a good question. We (or at least I) intend the effect to work over any range once the machine is under control. However, this leaves the question of how near do you need to be to be to actually take control. If this is allowed over any range, this power is tantamoun to teleportation (at least with regard to the transfering of information). Since teleportation is a 'universal impossibility', this requires further thinking.

Please let me get back to you on this.

Name it : Ghost in a shell -power

We already played with the idea, but we decided strongly against any reference to Ghost in the Shell. Associating this power with the ability to possess or inhabit a mechanical body would make a declaration on how the Force works with respect to machines -- effectively declaring droids to have a soul (or however you want to call the connection to the force). This is something we are not willing to do.

So, we keep away from any terminology implying possession of the machine, and instead opt to use 'control'. This does not carry the same metaphysical values, and still allows the effects that we want the power to have.

[Mercury]

On an unrelated sidenote, Ghost in the Shell is a really cool anime though.

[Dragonmaster352]

On an unrelated sidenote, Ghost in the Shell is a really cool anime though.

Yes. Yes it is.

[Brend]

What exactly is the range of the 3th power?

That is a good question. We (or at least I) intend the effect to work over any range once the machine is under control. However, this leaves the question of how near do you need to be to be to actually take control. If this is allowed over any range, this power is tantamoun to teleportation (at least with regard to the transfering of information). Since teleportation is a 'universal impossibility', this requires further thinking.

Please let me get back to you on this.

After some thinking, I came up with the following limitation: To activate the power you and the machine must be within personal range (no more than one bodylength away from you). The power can then be maintained over any distance.

Example: For Jaicen to use the Rank 3 power on his personal droid, they would need to be within personal range. Once the link is stablished Jaicen-droid can move away from Jaicen-body without limits, and the link would remain intact regardless of the distance. If Jaicen stops the link, the droid would be stuck whereever he is as Jaicen-body awakens.

While this still allows for a minimal amount of information teleportation (from an Rank 3'ed machine back to the location of the Jedi themself) I do not think that this will pose an enormous problem. The other option (requiring the machine to be in personal range with the body to deactive the link) gives it too much of an association of an actual conciousness possessing the machine.

What do others think of this?


On another note: no concrete comments on the power itself have been made. If no one objects I plan on giving the power approval and putting it on the wiki in the weekend of 16 and 17 May. (Still fishing for a name, by the way :P)

[Elmer]

Does this mean that a Jedi with the characteristic 'huge' has a small benefit from this power as his bodylength is larger?

[Brend]

Does this mean that a Jedi with the characteristic 'huge' has a small benefit from this power as his bodylength is larger?

Yes.

In fact, if your machine has one very thin long arm (that is still an integral part of the machine, and noet just a plugged-in cable), it would still count as 'in personal range' if the arm was extended to your Jedi.

This may sound silly, but it makes a lot of sense actually. Since we do not actually limit the machine, it can just as easily be a Millenium Falcon style space ship. In such cases, you'd have to be inside, or on the surface of the ship to use the Rank 2 power, and the same holds for the Rank 3 power. Meaning that you can initiate Rank 3 from within the ship.

Seeing how the ship can literally be a fifty times the length of your Jedi, the small Huge bonus does not seem to be a problem.

(Besides, a huge Jedi also has the benefit of wielding a massive light saber :P)

[Brend]

Unless there are any objections I will put this on the wiki in the weekend of 23-24 May.

I will, at that moment, also inform the affected players that they have the option to retroactively change their character.

[Brend]

The power is on the wiki: Control Machine.

[Elmer]

I have updated the changelog

[Jhovall]

Thanks, I like the new power

[Brend]

Don't forget that you can propose retroactive changes to your character related to the rules change. To do so, file them in the change announcement.

[Jhovall]

I read through the control machine power again, and got a remark about the first level.
Although I like the strength of the level, I'd say it is kind of useless, unless you are not able to talk, since in star wars droids can already perform basic functions like pressing buttons or operating an elevator already. It seems useless to only take one level in the skill, since it is an investment in DEM crystal and you can already perform these things without the crystal.

[Brend]

Droids can do those things, yes. But they can not do them based on a mental command.

This power allows you to use mental commands to order the Droid you are attuned to around with mental commands. The capacity of the droid to perform operations is not enhanced, which is why only basic commands are allowed.

While it is true that someone can already perform these things without the crystal, this would entail explicitly telling the droid what you want it to do. Which is not in any way or form a special ability. In contrast to that, the First level power gives you a special ability.

(Also, you are about half a year after the party... Next time, please open a new thread to ask for clarification.)

[Jhovall]

Well, I understand there is an advantage. I just the advantage is really small, compared to the 'costs' and other level 1's of other skills. I don't really mind, since I have level 2 and think that is sufficient.

(I disagree, it is the same subject, so why make different topics for it.)

[Brend]

(It is not the same subject. This thread is a discussion on a new power proposal. Your question is not part of the power proposal, but a separate question posed half a year later.)