Design Ideas: Skills
Brend
Pixie
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Design Ideas: Skills
Brend » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:17 pm
This thread is for posting design ideas, inspiration, and discussion on:
See also Skills.
To allow people to design a starting Jedi, and to spend their training points, we want a handful of starting skills.
(Do not worry about the details, implementation, or numbers you give. Those are subject to change anyway since we must balance them with the other things that are being designed.)
Skills
Skills are learnable abilities that Jedi (and other characters) can master over their career. They represent things that you can improve in with practice and training.See also Skills.
To allow people to design a starting Jedi, and to spend their training points, we want a handful of starting skills.
(Do not worry about the details, implementation, or numbers you give. Those are subject to change anyway since we must balance them with the other things that are being designed.)
Brend » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:50 pm
I propose the hypothetical example as an actual skill line:
First Aid → Field Medic → General Surgeon
First Aid → Field Medic → General Surgeon
Pixie » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:51 pm
Some ideas based on skills available in the old system:
I grouped some in a tree based on it seeming quite logical to be able to do one thing before being able to do another effectively or to be able to specialize (e.g. its quite convenient to know something of programming if you intend to break someone else's computer system)
- - Programming → Slicing
- Mechanical/general engineer → Weapons engineer → Lightsaber construction
- Mechanical/general engineer → Robotics → Cyberneticist
- Tracking & Navigation → Wilderness survival
- Stealth
- Pedagogy
- Contortionist
- Acrobatics
I grouped some in a tree based on it seeming quite logical to be able to do one thing before being able to do another effectively or to be able to specialize (e.g. its quite convenient to know something of programming if you intend to break someone else's computer system)
Pixie » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:59 pm
Another thing I was wondering about:
How could non-binary skills like athletics and linguistics fit in to the new system?
It makes sense that some Jedi are better than others at athletics, or some know more languages than others, but these are not really binary: Someone who can run quite well is not yet an Olympic athlete, and someone who studied an extra language is not yet fluent in all languages and dialects in the galaxy.
Does anyone have thoughts on this?
How could non-binary skills like athletics and linguistics fit in to the new system?
It makes sense that some Jedi are better than others at athletics, or some know more languages than others, but these are not really binary: Someone who can run quite well is not yet an Olympic athlete, and someone who studied an extra language is not yet fluent in all languages and dialects in the galaxy.
Does anyone have thoughts on this?
Brend » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:35 pm
I have! I have!
It is a good question. The really short answer: They do not. And that is by design.
We very deliberately removed ratings on attributes, abilities, skills, force powers, etc. to arrive at the new rules. In practice, the differences were either so small that they did not matter in the narrative, or so large that it was always clear what the outcome would be. Part of this is due to the lack of randomness in the system, and part is due to the fact that we had a Force Level rating permeating the system.
So we decided very early on to get rid of the ratings, in favour of those things that are relevant to the story (i.e., "can you, or can you not do X?") and development of the characters (in the story-wise and moral sense).
I fully agree that it makes sense that some Jedi are better than others at athletics, or some know more languages than others. However, for the narrative of the stories we are going to play together, this will not matter much; and we trust our players to be consistent. They are free to describe "Tera Inogo is not as athletic as she would like" or "Shebi Ajava can outrun most other apprentices", but this difference does not need to be quantified.
Does that explain it to your satisfaction?
It is a good question. The really short answer: They do not. And that is by design.
We very deliberately removed ratings on attributes, abilities, skills, force powers, etc. to arrive at the new rules. In practice, the differences were either so small that they did not matter in the narrative, or so large that it was always clear what the outcome would be. Part of this is due to the lack of randomness in the system, and part is due to the fact that we had a Force Level rating permeating the system.
So we decided very early on to get rid of the ratings, in favour of those things that are relevant to the story (i.e., "can you, or can you not do X?") and development of the characters (in the story-wise and moral sense).
I fully agree that it makes sense that some Jedi are better than others at athletics, or some know more languages than others. However, for the narrative of the stories we are going to play together, this will not matter much; and we trust our players to be consistent. They are free to describe "Tera Inogo is not as athletic as she would like" or "Shebi Ajava can outrun most other apprentices", but this difference does not need to be quantified.
Does that explain it to your satisfaction?
On the specific examples mentioned (Languages and Athletics)... Click to open...
On languages: In OldFWURG we did languages mostly via the honour system. That is, people started out with some languages their characters knew. And over time acquired one or two new ones at most, it seemed. The universal translator item kinda covered the rest. The problem with quantifiying languages is that there's just so bloody many of them, and using "too much realism" in this case leads to not being able to roleplay due to lack of shared language... So everyone knows Galactic Basic, and that's that :)
On other non-binaries such as Athletics, jumping height, running speed, throwing distance, etc.: in the face of Force Speed (and Force Jump, etc.) and the general physical fitness of all Jedi this difference is irrelevant for most situations. For subcases, it might make sense to have some skills that express trained skill in things like, e.g., Juggling. Other cases, such as Stealth, are such basic actions (everyone knows instinctively how to hide), that the Skill does not represent being able to/not being able to, but represents instead lots of training and affinity for being really sneaky.
On other non-binaries such as Athletics, jumping height, running speed, throwing distance, etc.: in the face of Force Speed (and Force Jump, etc.) and the general physical fitness of all Jedi this difference is irrelevant for most situations. For subcases, it might make sense to have some skills that express trained skill in things like, e.g., Juggling. Other cases, such as Stealth, are such basic actions (everyone knows instinctively how to hide), that the Skill does not represent being able to/not being able to, but represents instead lots of training and affinity for being really sneaky.
Brend » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:39 pm
I like your idea of using the OldFWURG skills as inspiration.
I'd shuffle some of them around a little, e.g, "Wilderness Survival → Tracking & Navigation" based on their basic/speciliast level in OldFWURG. Though this largely depends on your reading of the OldFWURG skills.
I think "Lightsaber Construction" should be separate, instead of behind weapons engineering, since it is a skill that Jedi should be able to learn without being mechanics or weapons engineers.
I'd shuffle some of them around a little, e.g, "Wilderness Survival → Tracking & Navigation" based on their basic/speciliast level in OldFWURG. Though this largely depends on your reading of the OldFWURG skills.
I think "Lightsaber Construction" should be separate, instead of behind weapons engineering, since it is a skill that Jedi should be able to learn without being mechanics or weapons engineers.
Pixie » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:03 pm
Brend wrote:Does that explain it to your satisfaction?
Yes it does :)
Brend wrote:I'd shuffle some of them around a little, e.g, "Wilderness Survival → Tracking & Navigation" based on their basic/speciliast level in OldFWURG. Though this largely depends on your reading of the OldFWURG skills.
I agree that some could/should be shuffled around a little, or separated, but this specific example is not one I particularly agree with.
I'd say tracking and navigation is all about being mindful of signs and hints and knowing one's way around, but that might work in a city as well as in the wilderness. It may not be a very wise idea to follow someone or lead the way through a wilderness if you cannot survive on your own, but someone else can help you with that.
However, for surviving in the wilderness fairly well, it is quite handy to be mindful of signs of e.g. predators and to be able to determine the best route to e.g. the river, food, your shelter or the location you intended to reach.
However, knowing what plants you can eat and how to build a shelter does not necessarily help you track a murderer though a city. Hence I put Tracking and Navigation as a prerequisite for Wilderness Survival.
Do you have other considerations to reverse the order?
Brend » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:53 pm
Like I said, that specific example is based on how you interpret the OldFWURG skills. My interpretation follows from the history of the skills.
They were originally a single skill "Wilderness Survival" that covered both basic survival skills and the tracking of creatures and navigation through difficult terrain. That skill got split up when we introduced the distinction between Basic skills and Specialist skills: the basic Wilderness Survival retained only the basic survival aspect (which is really kind instinctive for most species), whereas Tracking & Navigation received the "track creatures through the wilderness" aspect. It was never intended to help you track a murdered through a city, it was an extension of being at home in the wilderness of natural settings, and knowing your way around. As such, I would place basic Wilderness Surival ability before being able to comfortably Track and navigate through those wildernesses.
That being said, I think that there's good arguments for both interpretations. I also think that we should let neither the OldFWURG interpretation nor the OldFWURG name govern how we structure the skill trees for FWURG 2.0. We are free to define skills afresh, and should take that opportunity. For example, I would say that tracking a murderer through a city is not "Tracking & Navigation" in the wilderness sense, but certainly deserves its own skill that indicates that you know your way around cities with, know who to talk to and how with "Streetwise", maybe followed by "Urban Tracking" which covers things like getting tracking hints from people, knowing urban movement patterns, and getting access to camera's that aren't heavily secured.
They were originally a single skill "Wilderness Survival" that covered both basic survival skills and the tracking of creatures and navigation through difficult terrain. That skill got split up when we introduced the distinction between Basic skills and Specialist skills: the basic Wilderness Survival retained only the basic survival aspect (which is really kind instinctive for most species), whereas Tracking & Navigation received the "track creatures through the wilderness" aspect. It was never intended to help you track a murdered through a city, it was an extension of being at home in the wilderness of natural settings, and knowing your way around. As such, I would place basic Wilderness Surival ability before being able to comfortably Track and navigate through those wildernesses.
That being said, I think that there's good arguments for both interpretations. I also think that we should let neither the OldFWURG interpretation nor the OldFWURG name govern how we structure the skill trees for FWURG 2.0. We are free to define skills afresh, and should take that opportunity. For example, I would say that tracking a murderer through a city is not "Tracking & Navigation" in the wilderness sense, but certainly deserves its own skill that indicates that you know your way around cities with, know who to talk to and how with "Streetwise", maybe followed by "Urban Tracking" which covers things like getting tracking hints from people, knowing urban movement patterns, and getting access to camera's that aren't heavily secured.
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