Fwurg

[Brend]

This thread is for posting design ideas, inspiration, and discussion on:

Force Powers

Force Powers are expressions of a Jedi's connection with the Force. They can be practiced to a certain extent, and they way the Jedi understands the force impacts what kind of force powers they manifest. Such understanding can be codified in a holocron from which others can learn.

See also Force Powers.

To allow people to design a starting Jedi, and to have their virtue shifts give them access to new powers, we want a handful of starting force powers.

(Do not worry about the details, implementation, or numbers you give. Those are subject to change anyway since we must balance them with the other things that are being designed.)

[Pixie]

Are the Virues considered definite enough now to use in examples for Force Powers? (I have no suggested improvements for the list at the moment ;) )

[Brend]

Yes. They are. (And I have removed the note that they are not.)

[Pixie]

An idea of mine (maybe not for a starting power):

Force Flight (or force wings)

• Jedi can use the Force to fly for short distances, even when the Jedi's species does not have Natural Flight.
• "Level" 2: Through practice, the Jedi becomes more familiar with this power and can use it more easily, intuitively and for slightly longer.
• "Level" 3: Eventually the Jedi can fly (nearly) as easily and far as with natural flight.
• Associated virtue for advancement: Perseverance
• (Fluff: Use may be accompanied by appearance of translucent wings, depending om the Jedi's character and/or understanding of the force )

[Brend]

Oh whoops. I just noticed that there are still no example force powers... I will make some time to produce a few examples this weekend Soon™. That way people will have a better idea of how the new rules' Force Powers were intended to work. Especially with regards to "levels" and virtue requirements and such. Those things too should have been described in the rules notes, but it seems they are not. Yup, I'll get on that quickly ^_^

Edit: I have to postpone this a little, as I have no more time to spend this weekend. ~_~

[Brend]

Update: I have made significant progress with some sample Force Powers this weekend. Though instead of posting them right now, I want to let them settle for a bit so I can review them with a fresh set of eyes. This will also allow my brain some time to get used to the new way Force Powers seem to fit together—as this is significantly different from OldFWURG.

In the meantim, there's two things that I did in the course of working on the example powers:

A small update on the Jedi rules proposal in the form of Innate Force Powers, as it turns out that nothing was written about that yet.

I made an overview of the Virtues and the Philosophies: Jedi Virtues ● FWURG 2.0. If you hover over one of the philosophies with the mouse cursor, the associated virtues are highlighted. This thing helped me get an overview of all virtues combined, instead of reading them in a linear fashion.

[Pixie]

Thanks for the update!

Small question on the innate force powers: does the link to "Innate Force Powers" lead to a page that does not feature the term yet? ( I re-read most of it and tried ctrl+f, but couldn't find it...)

[Brend]

It ought to work. Have you refreshed the page by hitting F5? Sometimes the combination of browsers and my server gets a bit lazy and does not actually give you the new page.

[Pixie]

Ok, that did the trick. Looks good to me :)

[Brend]

I have completed a few example Force Powers. Before reading them, take a look at the Reading Force Powers section of the rules proposal (might require a ctrl+f5 again). That section describes what most of the "new" terms used here means. Though, without that section this should also be readable.

As you read the following posts, you'll note that I cheat a little by adding nice diagrams to each post to clarify the relations between the force powers. These diagrams are in addition to the information in the text, so nothing is lost by not being able to make these. (I'll also see about making a quick-and-dirty diagram maker available to everyone! Done: FWURG 2.0 Force Power Diagram Maker)


Also, please keep in mind that a single Force Power is currently estimated to be as expensive in Training Points as a single Skill or Combat Style step. And that Jedi will have a few of each, not lots of each. (That is, 10 Training Points is a single Force Power step, Skill, or Combat Style step. And Padawan are expected to gain 50 training points before they become Knights) The expectation is that different Jedi will take different paths in these powers, instead of all Jedi taking them all.

[Brend]

Force Jump

Force Jump → Mid-Air Redirect → Precision Landing
Force Jump → Safe Fall
Mid-Air Redirect + Safe Fall → Void Impulse

Force Jump (Neutral: Any Virtue 2) — passive, This Force Power allows the Jedi to enhanced their jumps with the Force, jumping much further and higher than normal.

Mid-Air Redirect (Neutral: Any Virtue 4) — active, The jedi can redirect their jump in mid-air. A Jedi could for example jump off a balcony, turn around in mid-air and then land on the balcony above it. This power can only be used when there is an atmosphere.

Safe Fall (Neutral: Any Virtue 3) — active, The Jedi can catch themselves after a fall using the Force. When using this power, the Jedi will not be hurt regardless of their falling distance. This power can only be used when there is an atmosphere.

Precision landing (Knight, Neutral: Any Virtue 6) — passive, The Jedi can make landings with extreme precision even on very fast moving objects. For example, jumping across a street and through a small bathroom window while landing in a smooth roll, or landing on the back of speederbike driving by at 400 kilometers an hour.

Void Impulse (Knight, Neutral: Any Virtue 8) — augment, the Jedi can use Force Jump and any powers that build on it, and that they have mastered, without an atmosphere being present.

I dislike the name "Void Impulse", as it implies a relation to actual physics with the "Impulse" word; and there's no physics as such involved.

[Brend]

Force Speed

Force Speed → Wallrun
Force Speed → Instant Reflexes → Defensive Blur

Force Speed (Neutral: Any Virtue 2) — passive, The jedi uses the Force to increase the speed at which they can run. They can easily chase down mundane foes and make running jumps of greater distances. They do not automatically win chases, but they can get an advantage out of their speed.

Wallrun (Neutral: Any Virtue 3) — active, the Jedi can run along a wall, allowing them to reach places normally out of reach.

Instant Reflexes (Neutral: Any Virtue 3) — passive, the Jedi has honed his reflexes to the point that they reflexively dodge sniper fire and blaster fire. This does not make them immune to such attacks, but allows them to dodge the first few shots of such an ambush or assassination and react immediately.

Defensive Blur (Neutral: Any Virtue 5) — active (2), at the start of a combat the Jedi can activate this power to get a +1 to Defend.

[Brend]

Telepathy

Telepathy → Planetary message
Telepathy → Telepathic Bond

Telepathy (Light: Serenity 3) — active, The Jedi can use the Force to send telepathic messages to willing living creatures over a short distance. They can also receive a telepathic answer from a created contacted. They cannot maintain a continuous connection.

Planetary Message (Light: Serenity 4) — active, The Jedi can attempt to contact an individual on or above the same planet. The message is one way and must be short. You must have some sort of relation to this individual, for example they could be your apprentice, loved one, hated enemy, or trusted lieutanent.

Telepathic Bond (Light: Serenity 4) — active (2), The Jedi can telepathically bond with another Jedi that has mastered Telepathy. Once bonded, the bond is maintained for 24 hours and can provide open communication between the two, similar to a radio channel, but more secure and without detectable signals.

[Brend]

Mind Trick

Mind Trick → Forgetful Mind → Latent Trick
Mind Trick → Detect Mind Trick
Mind Trick → Suggest Belief → Enforce Will

Mind Trick (Neutral: Any Virtue 3) — active, The Jedi can use the Force to make another believe a simple lie and even guide their actions, provided the action is not too far out of character and fit the context. A guard might be tricked into letting someone pass at a general checkpoint, but they could not be mind tricked to swallow a live grenade, for example. The action must be immediate, and might fail on particulairly strong-willed individuals such as senators, generals, or faction leaders, and will certainly fail when used on Jedi or Bounty Hunters.

Forgetful Mind (Neutral: Any Virtue 4) — active, The Jedi can make the subject forget they ever saw the Jedi. If the Jedi did something important in their presence, they remember someone doing it, but they do not remember if was the Jedi.

Detect Mind Trick (Light: Benevolence 3) — passive, The Jedi can automatically recognize of a subject was affected by a Mind Trick when they speak of an event. This doesn not automatically mark any individual ever affected by one, but if a soldier who was mind tricked tells the Jedi they saw nobody around the corner, the Jedi will automatically know they were mind tricked to say this.

Latent Trick (Knight, Neutral: Any Virtue 6) — augment (Mind Trick), The Jedi can use this power to provide simple scripted instructions, such as 'raise the alarm in 10 minutes'.

Suggest Belief (Dark: Ruthlessness 3) — augment (Mind Trick) (+1), The Jedi can use this power to suggest an interpretation of facts of events. For example, you can suggest to a guard that those people over there are very suspicious, prompting him to investigate them—instead of you.

Enforce Will (Knight, Dark: Ruthlessness 6) — augment (Mind Trick) (+1), The Jedi can use this power to guide another into an action that are within their character for them, but somewhat out of context. For example, a guard might be tricked to open all cellblocks, or to let you go after they identified your droid as "the droid we are looking for". This cannot be used to given blatantly suicidal suggestions.

[Brend]

Befriend Animal

Befriend Animal → Calm Animal → Attract Wildlife
Befriend Animal → Companion → Guide Companion → Greater Companion

Befriend Animal (Light: Tolerance 3) — passive, The Jedi can befriend local wildlife. Though limited in their understanding, befriended animals will try to help out the Jedi to the best of their ability and understanding within their natural behaviour. For example a befriended rancor might attack the Jedi's enemies. However, a befriended rabbit would not be able to operate a computer panel to open a door.

Calm Animal (Light: Tolerance 4, Serenity 2) — active, When facing a hostile or agitated animal, the Jedi can calm them enough to stop them from attacking, so long as the reason for the attack is ended. Thus, a guard dog would stop attacking unless its master was present and ordering the dog to attack.

Attract Wildlife (Light: Tolerance 4, Serenity 3) — active, The Jedi can perform a 10-minute ritual that draws in local wildlife, which gathers around the Jedi over the course of the ritual and calmly waits to be befriended.

Companion (Light: Tolerance 3, Benevolence 2) — passive, The Jedi gains an animal companion, a small creature that is a permanent friend to the Jedi.

Guide Companion (Light: Tolerance 4, Benevolence 2) — active, The Jedi can meditate to take control of the animal companion, which allows her to take action as if she were the animal companion. The animal companion does not gain any of the Jedi's abilities, but can take actions that seem extraordinarily smart to outsides.

Greater Companion (Knight, Light: Tolerance 5, Benevolence 3) — augment (Befriend Animal), The Jedi's animal companion need no longer be a small creature. For example, the Jedi could have a Guarlara, Ralltiir Tiger or even an Rathtar as companion. Note that not all animal companions are well-adjusted to accompany the Jedi to other habitats, this force power does nothing to assist with such issues. (The exact companion needs to be proposed and approved OOC.)

In OldFWURG the Companion and Befriend Animal powers were combined after nobody was interested in the solo power. It is my belief that this was due to the fact that you were forced to progress linearly through those powers. By allowing both with-companion and without-companion progression I think this issue does not crop up here.

[Brend]

Note: The virtue requirements will need reviewing after I write out a few "natural" progressions of virtue points moves and the required virtue distributions related to declaring a philosophy to become Jedi Knight.

[Brend]

I made a rough Force Power Diagram Editor so everyone can make these diagrams!

Example diagram... Click to open...

[Fedor]

Very cool, I like these force powers. And now everyone can propose them with nice informative pictures.

[Pixie]

Very cool indeed!

I've tried to put some of the ideas I had in this format. Without many specific numbers as I don't really know about balancing anyways.
They are mostly based on what I think would be cool for Jedi to (be able to) do. (Specifically I'd really like for my Jedi to be able to fly using the force)

So, here goes nothing:

[Pixie]

Force Flow

Force Flow → Flow Jet → Ride Flow
Force Flow → Flow Jet → Eye of the Storm
Force Flow → Block Flow

Force Flow (Light: Serenity Neutral, Any Virtue 3) — active, The Jedi can subtly influence the flow of fluids such as air and water. This way the Jedi can for instance shift leaves or sand close by, divert a small part of a stream or make going with strong head winds a little easier.

Flow Jet (Light: Serenity, Righteousness?) — active, The Jedi can create a strong short burst of air - or water if available- in a direction of choice. For example to slow down or unbalance an enemy or change the direction or speed of someone who is falling.

Ride Flow (Light: Righteousness , Serenity) — active, The Jedi can influence a flow to safely carry the Jedi. This works for relatively strong pre-existing flows as well as flows the Jedi created.

Eye of the Storm (Knight/Master, Light: SerenityRightiousness, Benevolence) — active (2), The Jedi can create a protective dome of fast moving fluid around him/her. The inside of the dome is shielded from elements and enemies. The shielding is limited: it may deflect blaster fire, slow down a enemy and keep fire out, but it does not prevent the Jedi from being crushed by a huge boulder.

Block Flow (Knight, Dark: Ferocity) — active, The Jedi can force a flow to stop.

(Edit: I changed the proposed virtues to fit the Unifying Force Philosophy)

[Pixie]

Force Levitate

Force Flow → Force Flight
Force Levitate→ Levitate other → Levitate multiple
Force Levitate→ Levitate other → Levitate by Force

Force Levitate (Light: Serenity 2, Preseverance 2Neutral, Any Virtue 3) — active, The Jedi can move him/herself slowly and steadily through atmosphere.

Force Flight (Light: Perseverance 3?, Serenity 2Neutral, Any Virtue 4) — active, The Jedi can move through the air at high speeds and with agility as if she had Natural Flight. Activation may be accompanied by the appearance of some form translucent wings, depending on the Jedi's character.

Levitate other (Knight, Light: Benevolence 4,Serenity 2) — active, The Jedi can make another person levitate, provided that the person does not resist.

Levitate Multiple (Knight/Master, Light: Serenity, PerseveranceBenevolence 5, Serenity 3 ) — augment (+1), Jedi can levitate him/herself and another willing person

Levitate by Force (Knight, Dark: Ferocity, Selfishness?) - active, The Jedi can levitate another person even if that person is not cooperating.


(Edit: I edited the proposed virtues and corrected some typos)

[Fedor]

One possible criticism of this formulation for force powers:
Having every force power represented as a tree with other force powers around it means there is not much space for force powers that 'stand alone' and do not fit with others, a kind of unique small chunk force power.
I don't know if those actually exist or that we should want them, I have not thought of any.
But, are force powers that would in this diagram be presented as just a single node, without any follow up or previous requirements allowed in this system?

[Brend]

But, are force powers that would in this diagram be presented as just a single node, without any follow up or previous requirements allowed in this system?

I see no reason to disallow a stand-alone power.

[Pixie]

I noticed I have one worry over the current design:
The distribution of virtue points is directly related to which force powers a Jedi can access and at the same time it dictates which philosophy/philosophies the Jedi can adhere to. Indirectly the distribution is related the the personality of the Jedi, as it is a reflection of the actions of the Jedi.

In itself I like this idea, but what now if the virtue points required for the philosophy a player intends for his character, correspond poorly with the Force Powers that the Player thinks fits the Jedi? Or even with the personality the Player thought up for their Jedi?

As advancement rules are stated now, 11 out of 15 available Virtue points need to be spent on 2 major Virtues that correspond to the current philosophies. That leaves at most 4 points to spend on other virtues to unlock and use powers in other fields or to illustrate that none of the current philosophies fit this Jedi very well.

Formulating a philosophy that might better fit the Jedi is only possible after advancement to Master rank, so my worry over this is that the desire for advancement might compromise the intended coolness or personality of the character. Or vice versa (which I will probably do to the character I plan to import).

[Brend]

I think that's a legitime worry. And I share it.

As said earlier, a lot of the numbers in the proposed rules are not set in stone yet. Designing a game system like this requires a bit of "to and fro" with the different parts of the system. You design some parts, then use those to inform your design of other parts. However, in designing the other parts, you discover that the earlier parts of your design need to change to fit better.

I think this is one of those cases: Jedi virtue requirements were based on rough estimates. Now that we have a better view on how they will be used, we revisit the requirements to better fit with the idea of allowing customizability through selecting force powers.

I was planning on reviewing the virtue requirements on advancement in relation to the Force powers, and vice versa Force power virtue prerequisites need reviewing after advancement changes. I'll do this through writing out a few natural progressions of hypothetical Jedi characters' virtue configurations throughout their "career". If people are interested I can do a write-up of this process so they can follow along.


For those interested, there's some more background in here:

On virtues, philosophy and personality... Click to open...

On virtues, philosophy and personality...

The idea of the Virtues is that they form the "lens" through which the Jedi views the Force, and the philosophy they follow is an extension of that. This lens also, in some measure, influences which Force powers can be manifested by the Jedi, as the way they view the Force shapes their ability to use their connection to the Force to influence events. So in game terms there is a limitation, to a certain extent, on what Force powers match with certain views on the Force, and the formalization of those views is a Philosophy.

So, yes, it is true that you cannot just willy-nilly cherry pick your way through all the Force Powers you think are fitting for your character without taking into account the way they ought to interpret the Force. And vice versa, if you want your Jedi to declare for a Philosophy that has a radically different outlook on life than one that matches their personality, the Jedi will have some soul-searching to do.

This path of growth, with the Jedi gaining understanding over time, and maybe adjusting their world view—or their player adjusting their ideas of what their character can grow into—is an intrinsic part of the journey a Jedi takes, and is something that I think will offer players a more involving and interesting set of plots and stories that tie in with their character's personal growth.

On the interaction of Force Power requirements and Philosophy... Click to open...

On the interaction of Force Power requirements and Philosophy...

I think this greatly depends on the way Force Powers are designed. There is some limitation inherent in the system, but overall most Force Powers should require only a limited commitment to a specific Virtue.

You (Pixie) have proposed two powers that are both tied to 2 distinct virtues (3 even, if you count the Dark paths) in doing so you have tied them more strongly to a specific way of viewing the Force. This might be because you gleaned this from the Befriend Animal example—which I specifically designed to basically match up with the Living Force philosophy.

As a rule, Force Powers that require 2 virtues are intrinsically more related to a specific philosophy (or hypothetical philosophy) than those force powers that only require 1 virtue. And 1 virtue was intended as the baseline requirement.

However, in light of the fact that a review of the virtue progressions is coming up, I think it is fair to use the information from that to further refine how Force Power prerequisites should work. This requirements are not meant to punish players for ot taking a certain virtue—they are meant to reflect that certain views on the force match with certain manifestations of its influence. And it might turn out that the current design is to limiting (either by the Philosophy locking in too much points, or by the Force Powers being too tightly tied to the Virtues).