Fwurg

[Brend]

I have a player in one of my missions that persistently applies Force Vision to all checks taken with the Vision attribute. To me this seems weird, since Force Vision is not a generic "Vision booster" in the same way that Force Jump and Force Speed are generic "jumping" and "running" boosters.

There are two interpretations of the Force Vision power:

Force Vision gives distinct and unique benefits, such as seeing through mist and rain, seeing living beings by their force signature, and looking past closed doors. To me, this makes it a special power that is not always applicable to Vision checks.

On the other hand, when taking checks you are allowed to add the ranks of force powers that are applicable. And since Force Vision seems related to the Vision attribute it might make sense to do so.


The question here is: Does Force Vision also give a generic Vision attribute related boost, or does it give specific "magic sight" powers?

(I think that the "Vision" in Force Vision is misleading, since it really should be called "Force Sight", as it gives sight related magic powers.)

[Jhovall]

You mean Elmer :P?

I think it should give magic bonuses.
Furthermore I think it should only give bonuses to force-related things on your vision. Like living creatures, lightsabers, force crystals etc. And not be applied to remove rain.

[Brend]

... And not be applied to remove rain.

I suggest you take the effort to read up on the rules for Force Vision before commenting. The basic effect of the power is literally "The Jedi's vision is not hindered by conditions with bad visibility, such as bad lighting, mist or rain." :P

[Jhovall]

I did actually, but I think that should be changed to what I proposed.

[Brend]

In that case I suggest you open a new thread (in the Game Design & Rule Discussion board) to discuss your proposed changes to the Force Vision power, that way this thread will not veer off-topic ^_^

Here, I'm only interested in what people think of applying Force Vision to all Vision checks.

[Mercury]

I think Force Vision should never give a bonus to Vision checks. Force Vision rather negates penalties on the check that may apply for bad lighting, mist or rain, and gives additional abilities to detect living beings, have some level of remote sensing etc, dependent upon the rank.

You don't see using Force Vision. You see with your eyes. Force Vision merely enhances the abilities of the eye.

[Brend]

I tend to agree with that, with one the exception of the use of one of Force Vision's active powers.

If a check must be made to succesfully use the force power you should be allowed to add the force power to the check. This is how we have designed all force powers with active uses, and is a relevant factor in purchasing another rank with . In this case the Rank 1 power explicitly states that a check might be needed, and I think that the other two powers might also require checks under certain circumstances.

I would like to know what others think (especially those whose Jedi has taken Force VisionElmer)...

[Elmer]

While playing, I noticed as well that I am including force vision to all my vision checks. I was thinking of not using force vision in some of my checks, but then I though about that I spend XP in specializing Trigiel in vision and sight and thus that it would be normal to use it. In other words, I bought it, so why not use it?

With that of the road, I believe that Force Vision should mainly remove penalties, and not be a bonus. (And thus that I should not use it for every check). That will mean that I will still note down the Force Vision, since I cannot always guess the penalties which are present in the area (but not always mentioned). But the Storyteller can easily revoke my application of force vision, while not noting my use of force vision might result in an unintended failure of the check. The Storyteller cannot always keep track of every skill and power after all.

I think I also had a small misconception about what Force Vision does. I was thinking in the lines of 'you see the force' but it is 'you use the force to see'. What I was thinking first is of course total bullshit since the force is not some kind of magical mana spell you can see...

[Brend]

If you want to notify the ST I think that you shouldn't add it to your check but put it on the check notes ^_^

[Elmer]

hmm, that works as well :)