Fwurg

[Mercury]

There has been some backlash regarding the Bozzy Spine Extention vote. Three main points have been brought forward, and I would like to reply to it in general so people know my viewpoint.

1. A lot of votes and responses happened in the very end of the vote

This is correct and it is my fault. Due to other obligations and a science papers deadlines, I have not been able to attend to Fwurg as much as it deserves. I strive not to have all NPC worlds vote at the end and not to wait to the last minute with replies to messages. In this case, I did not succeed in that endeavour.

Not all negotiations were finished up as people had hoped. Due to time constraints and the natural limitations of communicating by an email equivalent, there are only a limited number of rounds in the negotiations and discussion. If no deal is struck before the time limit, then the deal bounces.

Normally, votes have 1 week from being posted to being decided. In this case, the voting period was three days longer. This, combined with my absence at the end, created a deceptive view wherein it appeared as if there was still time left for further negotiations, but in reality there was not. However, the fact that the number of iterations in negotiations was limited has never been clearly communicated and this is my fault.

Additionally, I rounded off the final vote tally too quickly. Due to my absence, a lot of backlog has built up - Holonet Relays, Loans, and this vote. I wanted to get things going again, so I decided to finish up. From the messages I had received, it appeared to me as if most of the final offers had either been made or refused. It was not clear to me that another full round of negotiations, including the involvement of new parties and additional deals, etcetera was desired, and I had not communicated that this option was not available.

The way in this was all handled was incorrect and I apologise for it.

2. The vote was fixed and not winnable from the beginning, arguments and deals do not matter

I want to fight this assertion in the strongest possible terms. It is not the case that this vote was doomed from the start. The fact of the matter is that not all players agreed on the course of action to take, both sides making efforts to secure NPC votes for their side of the story. If all players had put their weight behind one proposal, the outcome would have been quite different. In this case, both sides had a fair chance of winning.

First off, there were indeed certain NPC worlds that could not possibly be convinced. The Principality of Suma, located in Sector 8 -5, was never going to vote for a different sector, regardless of the amount of effort put into it.

Secondly, certain worlds could be convinced using religious, rational or ethical arguments. An example include the Socialist Republic of Niom, which was convinced by the extensive data on trade routes presented by the Veolian Commonwealth.

Finally, certain worlds could be plainly bought with various offers, some going as far as to put a literal price tag on their vote. However, that does not mean these worlds weigh all offers equally. They have their own trade interests, which makes them weigh offers not just by their absolute value.

The latter part may seem unfair, but it is actually crucial to give PC worlds any chance at all - NPC worlds have far more resources after all and could easily outbid any PC offer, if all options were considered equal.

3. There were not enough options and information available

I'll agree that there is not enough information in general. Trade routes between NPCs are not currently listed, for one, which makes it harder to guestimate the relationships between them.

That said, I do not agree with the assertion that there was not enough data available to provide valid strategies. Enough information is either directly available or could be inferred to get a general idea of what different NPC worlds would want.

Unfortunately, several of the deals offered did not take the actual interests of the NPC worlds into account.

To support this, I want to give some insight into DM only information regarding this vote:

Round 2:

Free Peoples of Wrarrbo (Dealable)
Info available: Wish a route through their own sector
Will pick whatever deal will best secure them their own route extention in the future
Concerned about Sector 11 -3 route

High Chiefdom of Skuldda (Bribable)
Info available: Far from any extensions, doesn't care one way or another
Has been bribed

Interregnum Democracy of Scir (Convincible, Bribable, Difficult)
Info available: Highly democratic society, high organic output
Values oppinion of worlds with high degrees of freedom over those with low
Considders freedom of world benefiting from expansion
Will deal to dump organics for products
-> Does not like the Veolian Commonwealth (Considders other organic focussed worlds to be a commercial threat, disagrees with their political / social system)

Kingdom of Komes (Bribable, Difficult)
Info available: Very close relations to Meritonia, build Hyperspace Lanes
Requires a significant bribe - interested in Information, Raw Materials and Exotic Matter Devices

Kingdom of Meritonia (Unyielding)
Info available: Directly on a proposed option
Cannot be convinved

Liberal Assencia (Dealable, Bribable)
Info available: Close relations with the Core Hegemony, Proposed for Wrarrbo
Wishes to help Wrarrbo to ensure trade with them
Concerned about Sector 11 -3 route
Wishes better trade relations with the Core Hegemony

New Communist Imperium of the Rising Suns of Deominius (Bribable)
Info available: unfriendly with Socialist Republic of Niom
Will be open about being bribable.
Will vote opposite to Socialist Republic of Niom, except when bribed

Principality of Suma (Unyielding)
Info available: Directly on a proposed option
Cannot be convinved

Silver Forests of Remunzia (Abstain, Difficult)
Info available: Environmentally friendly, conspiracy theorists
Will respond to blunt offer of bribe by being offended
Will abstain unless very significant factors arrise

Socialist Republic of Niom (Arguable)
Info available:
Liked Rational arguments of Veolian Commonwealth
Will always reply late and slow


Final Tally:

Automatically vote 10 -5

* Sundarian Federation
* Veolian Commonwealth
* Unified Republic of Darya
* Praetorian Empire
* High Chiefdom of Skuldda

Leans towards 10 -5, but can be altered

* Socialist Republic of Niom

Neutral

* Free Peoples of Wrarrbo
* New Communist Imperium of the Rising Suns of Deominius
* Liberal Assencia

Leans towards 8 -5, but can be altered

* Interregnum Democracy of Scir
* Kingdom of Komes

Automatically vote 8 -5

* Kingdom of Meritonia
* Principality of Suma
* Lifebringer Clans
* Techno Zaibatsu

As you can see, the vote is actually slanted slightly in favour of Sector 10 -5 at this point.

A final option that was available from the start and that I was surprised nobody used was to deal with Core Worlds.

Core Worlds may not have a vote, but they most certainly have interests, and they are at least powerful enough to ensure they get elected, which gives them significant influence. They are also some of the wealthiest members of the Union and provide it with the most money - since they are paying for the larger share of the Bozzy Spine Extention, surely they will have an opinion, which may aid in convincing other worlds.

Even if you believe it was not possible to convince enough worlds, there was always the option of trying to convince other players.

All in all, I believe enough options and information was available, and both sides stood a fair chance of winning. However, communications were badly handled and need to be improved upon.

I apologise for my part in this, and I am working on finding a better solution to prevent this from reoccurring.

[The Lifebringer Clans]

I have a few related remarks and questions:

The stakes for this vote were immensely high. If an individual system would construct a Bozzy Spine section, it would cost them about 50.000 , and would require an immense amount of maintenance. Second, the leading proposal (immediately backed by a 4-player alliance) would give this to a system on the same tax set as me (i.e. direct competition) Were he to get this extension, his trade ratio would be better than mine, for any possible trading partner. So I was rather worried about this development. All I could do was back the competing proposal most likely to make the second round.

I felt there was not enough information at the start of the votes. It felt like a faux pas to message all ambassadors with a 'hey, what are you voting, and what can I do to persuade you.' It also seems an unreasonable demand to make of a DM to ask him to decribe everything in detail. So I focused on the detail the DM gave: only those directly involved as candidates seemed to be interested in the voting process, so I focused my efforts on them in the second round. This went well enough, and in this stage I had enough information to make a sensible offer. Well, that, and I applied some pressure to alliance members, but this proved fruitless.

On that note, I'm still curious what on earth Brend offered the alliance members that would make up for this massive investment. The others are in no position to win a bid for a Bozzy Spine extension, and Brend cannot pay them back in taxes, or he would have no income for the next year at least. (EDIT: nvm, just came up with a workable model, even though it relies on 100-turn goodwill from Brend and Chris towards Tintin and Gerben. It's ludicrously risky, but not as outright idiotic as I first imagined.)

I also have a question about the nature of this game: There's a 'numbers' aspect and a 'roleplaying' aspect. Which prevails? Are we negotiating in political roleplay in order to get higher numbers on our income sheet, or do we have the economics game as a backdrop for political intrigue?

Lastly, a message to the honorable opposition: I'm always open to negotiations. Next vote, let me know what you want, and I might be persuaded to back you. A voting block of 6 is stronger than a voting block of 4.

[Veolian Commonwealth]

This post is completely OOC, a point feel I have to I make because I saw the uneditted of the preceding post. It offered 10 (in IC measure of things) to someone willing to give OOC information. I think that those wishing to buy information should do so by sending the Veolian senator a message with said offer. The being said, here goes:


I agree that the stakes are immense, this did rather surprised me, and had some influence on how I perceived the game. I also agree with the faux pas of just broadcasting a message to all factions; especially because there are so many.

Regarding the application of pressure to alliance members, I haven't even received a single PM about a proposed deal, which I was half expecting until halfway in the second voting round. Maybe you tried someone else, and they did not relay information to the rest of the 'alliance', or they did not think it significant enough to do so (which is their right, of course). I was also slightly hoping that either of the NPC sides would knock on my door with an offer, but they appear really silent about their plight until someone wakes them from their slumber.

Which brings me to the next point: the fact that I can apparently offer something of such value that three other factions back me the instant my sector pops up (not even proposed by me, as you might have seen). I'm curious what your workable model is, but this thread is not the right place to discuss it; I can say to you that the co-operation of our factions is not due to enormous good-will or a convoluted 100-turn plan.

Since we have rules and information on economics, and a rather involved economic model, the game is currently focussed on economics. I think this will stay this way until information about other aspects of the world becomes available. Things that might shake the economic focus include: armies & fleets, jedi an external parties not bound by union laws.

I'm all for political intrigue, but as it is now, all my political power stems from my economy and the fact that my vote is up for grabs should someone come along with a good offer. Since most special projects appear extremely costly from the vantage point of my limited income, and most NPC worlds have solid economies due to them existing long before we got into the picture, having a higher number on my income sheet is the most accesible way to gain influence.

And closing with a message to the honorable opposition: Why are we your opposition? Does me having the same production focus as you throw you off balance? If so, we should talk about co-operating in our future endavours; even our combined economies are blown away by any single NPC in the same niche. I wouldn't worry about the competition from a single system, even if it is backed by several others.