Fwurg

[Nehket Aeka]

"It appears that we are fast approaching the end of the cross-examination with a solid conclusion. I suggest we have one last round of questions before we continue."

((OOC: I plan on closing the questions round in the weekend of 4-5 Juli))

[Lady Peinaili de Montrève]

"I have a few more questions directed at senator Harek."

The senator turns to the Hiocan delegation.

"Senator Harek, in this discussion you have argued that slaves are harmed allegedly due to the, what you call, lack of free will they experience. You state that being bound to the strict rules of their masters is the main problem for slaves, and that their relation to their master is not one that they can quit.

You have also stated that the Hiocan Society is a refuge for fleeing slaves from the Mandalorian Fleets. This piqued my curiosity, as the Veolian Commonwealth is a known opponent of the brutal slavery of the Hutt and the Mandalorian Fleets, so I did some reading on your policies with regards to these refugees. What I read surprised me.

I discovered that these refugees are welcomed at first and with help of what is called an integration program they are educated so that they can live on their own. This sounds logical. Yet to my surprise, the corrective steps that are taken seem to go against what you have been arguing: refugees that do not cooperate are punished and ultimately sent back!"


Peinaili let a small silence fall before addressing the whole senate.

"Senators, representatives.

Crime rates are very low in the Hiocan Society. They claim that this is due to the strict rules and regulations making sure that people stay on the right track or are helped to get back. Here, they have conjectured that slaves are harmed because of the strict rules put upon them by their masters.

So, when others determine the strict rules the Hiocan Society deems this wrong. But when the Hiocan Society itself determines the strict rules, this is suddenly allowed? And those refugees that chafe against these rules after surviving the ordeal of fleeing are sent back..."

The sundarian woman turns back to senator Harek.

"Senator, would you care to explain to the senate how the Hiocan Society can argue against any form of slavery here, while at the same time sending slaves back to the Mandalorians if they do not obey all your strict rules and regulations?"

[Senator Odakim V of the Rising Suns of Deominius]

"For a moment, I was filled with anger as our most generous invitation to Senator Harek was ignored, but my aides informed me that rather than committing such an unforgivable faux-pas, the Hiocan Senator was no doubt already convinced by my well-reasoned explanation as to how the voluntary slaves on Deominius are necessary to create the amazing buildings constructed in my honour, and how this justifies any minor inconveniences suffered by these voluntary slaves. I bow in recognition of Senator Harek's logic in not wasting more words on the voluntary Deominian slaves once he was convinced of the necessity and justice of their fates.

That said, let me now extend this invitation to our esteemed Chancellor, who by visiting our world may be convinced to change the method of slavery practised on the Veolian homeworld in favour of the Deominian method of voluntary slavery, which by any lack of protestation in this debate, all parties appear to have already agreed is acceptable and just!"

[Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia]

The Remunzian senator had not been present so far, apparently finding reason to be elsewhere while an aid took notes for her. But as the debate continued, finally Senator Salixa entered the Senate hall, accompanied by three small avian creatures, exotic birds of some sort forming her entourage.

She appeared to have dressed up for the occasion, wearing a custom gown made in the generic style of the Natural Beauty line gown, with dark brown faux-leather, a few sparse vines woven into the fabric. The gown came without sleeves, and instead long gloves adorned her arms, with straps of leather interwoven on each arm. The wide skirts, tall collar and high-heeled boots making her seem larger than life and with the bright make-up around her eyes, she appeared to be more than ready for war.

Rather than speaking, the Senator remained silent, giving a cold glance around at each person present, including aides, notaries and guards, as if silently judging them and finding them wanting.

[Senator Danar Tassar]

"Senator Odakim the fifth, you are to quick to assume we all agreed to your views, and if I am not mistaken, some of us already have spoken themselves against your, the Deominius, practice of slavery.

Once your people are so called voluntary slaves, isn't it true that they are owned as objectified things by their owner: You? Meaning that you can beat them, trade them and use them as you please?

Because we of the Consensus have clearly spoken to be against the trading of people, it is well known that the Veolian Commonwealth are against, and even have laws against the beating of slaves, the Astrian Colonial Authority have clearly spoken to be against the objectification of people and the Hiocans have voiced how they are against the mental degradation caused by forced slave labour.

That we of the senate have the courtesy not to directly voice against a Union member while we are talking about the concept of slavery, does not mean we all silently agree."

[Nehket Aeka]

Aeka looked at senator Tassar with a raised eyebrow when he placed his "have the courtesy not to directly voice against a Union member while we are talking about the concept of slavery" point.

[Senator Harek]

" Lady Peinaili de Montrève, I do not know where you got the information that we are sending Mandalorians slaves away. Real slaves we offer shelter. It is correct that people are send back, but that are criminals and other thug.

Might I remind you that we are one of the factions that are near to the border and that if we did not have strict rules, the whole Union would be filled with Mandalorian spies.

There is a huge cultural difference between the Hiocan Society and the Mandalorian and thinking that the Hiocan Society is a free ticket to a carefree life is wrong. Some people might go back , but there are a lot of human living happily in the Hiocan Society.

We indeed disapprove of the way Rising Suns of Deominius us slaves as cheap labor as Senator Danar Tassar says. There are other ways of making great building without oppression people. "

[Senator Odakim V of the Rising Suns of Deominius]

"Me, beating the voluntary slaves!? How dare you!" the Imperial Prince was clearly angered and offended by the statement "I am deeply offended at the suggestion that I, an Imperial Prince, would lower myself to the beating of voluntary slaves! I demand an apology for this most offensive suggestion!"

After calming himself some, he responded to the Hiocan Senator:

"Senator Harek, you claim that there are other ways of making great buildings, but I am quite sure you do not appreciate just how amazing these buildings are!"

An aid whispered something to him for a moment, after which the Imperial Prince added:

"It does not seem very logical for you to make a judgement about how these buildings can or cannot be constructed without at the very least inspecting them for yourself!"

[Lady Peinaili de Montrève]

"Senator Harek," the Sundarian senator replied, "I've based much of my analysis on information I have received from several research studies I have commissioned regarding this subject. They conclude the following, which I find worrisome:

partial findings and conclusions

They [the slaves] get a thorough physical and mental check-up and help if needed. They are welcomed and with help of a integration program, they are educated so that they can live on their own. As the Mandalorian are quite brutal most ex-slave end up in a mental institute for some time. When they do not cooperate or bring harm to the Hiocan society they are punished and ultimately send back.

((OOC: I have quoted from the Hiocan Society wiki page (version at the moment of writing).))

Do you feel that this is an unfair representation Senator?" Peinaili asked before bringing up a second issue

"There is an other matter as well, of which I've only recently been made aware. I would very much like the discuss the case of a miss Corinna de Beyza with you, but I feel that this discussion might not be the best stage for it."

[Senator Harek]

"Imperial Prince Odakim V, I did not accuse you of beating slaves, only using them for labor.
I would love to visit them and she how your slaves live.

Lady Peinaili de Montrève, we like to communicate clearly so that the applier for asylum know what he/she is up to. You need to coperate in our investigation so we can determine how to help people and if they are not lying and just want leach. If the person misbehaves we will apply our laws to see justice and only in ultimate cases people are send back. "

((OOC: My phrasing is not so good. Put it there long ago and did not change it.))

[Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia]

"The Silver Forests of Remunzia protests in the strongest possible terms against the very suggestion of reaching a 'compromise' on the matter of slavery. How could there be a "compromise" on such a fundamental matter?

You are all being deceived! At the very time where we raise that slavery is morally and fundamentally wrong, our own chancellor, herself a slave-owner, is attempting to make you all accomplices in the sale of more than 3 million Veolian slaves! She is trying to exchange their freedom for political and economic favour!

Such an act, abusing a call for cooperation and compromise to trick nations into doing the very thing against which they have spoken out is anathema to a proper dialogue. As such, the Silver Forests of Remunzia has no choice but to boycot this debate. We will pursuit this matter outside of the Senate and outside of the structures of the Union!"

With that, the Senator turned around and walked out, the trail of her gown and her entourage of birds walking out with her.

[Lord-Senator Kachiso Doshima]

The Astrian Lord-Senator observed how the half-Remunzian Senator left.

He remained quiet for now and continued to observe the reactions of other senators.

[Nehket Aeka]

The chancellor remained silent for some time to allow other representatives to react to the Remunzian statements. Since no one appears to have a desire to reply, she simply continued with the discussion.

"With this last of round of questions we shall now go towards finding a compromise. It is clear that the Silver Forests of Remunzia are against making a compromise, and seek other venues to act. I hope that other worlds are still willing to look for a compromise together, in the spirit of cooperation of the Union."

She pauses a moment.

"In making a compromise, it is often difficult to determine what other worlds would feel is at the same value of the thing that is asked of them. Since this process is one of give and take, feel free to ask for clarification, or propose changes. I ask that those that wish to propose alternative compromises notify me of this before taking the floor. That way we can keep the debate focussed and organized." ((OOC: A short OOC note or PM that you want to propose something is good enough. I can then give the floor to your character.))


"Because of the difficulty in estimating a compromises value, I, as senator of the Veolian Commonwealth, shall start with a first proposal on something the Commonwealth would feel equally valued."

As Aeka continues she knows, with almost absolute, that even this toned down compromise on cybernetics will not be acceptable to both the Teprogrenaian Consensus and the Astrian Colonial Authority. But the discussion needs to start somewhere, and since the other camp did not propose even a single compromise beforehand, she might as well start with this; there might be some support from other worlds.

"The Veolian Commonwealth has expressed, on several occasions in the past, the opinion that cybernetics should not be used to go beyond a species' biological capability. For us, this goes hand in hand with our opinion on the immoral use of birth control. We firmly belief that both factors result in a decline in the quality of natural selection, yet we have restrained ourselves from trying to use our influence in the senate to force such issues. Until now.

If the Union is willing to ask the Commonwealth and other worlds to change a fundamental element of our culture, the Union should be willing to reciprocate in kind. In return for sacrificing one of our oldest traditions, we ask that this is reciprocated by accepting measures to create a Union-wide improvement of the quality of natural selection: restrictions on cybernetics and artificial birth control.

We proposes restrictions on all synthetic implants. No synthetic implant is to bestow abilities that go above and beyond what the species is naturally capable of. Those that illegally augment themselves beyond the medically necessary are in violation of this, and are to be dealt with in a a manner akin to how other criminal acts are punished. Furthermore we propose a Union-wide prohibition of artificial birth control and artificially induced abortion, unless necessary for medical reasons, so as to offer every unborn child a chance at existence."

[Lord-Senator Kachiso Doshima]

Kachiso knew full well what the Chancellor was trying to do.

"Chancellor, are you fully aware of what you are asking? Should the Senate accept your proposal, I and nearly my entire race would be criminalized. Which borders on racism.

I cannot and will not let my world, my species, be turned into a third class member of the Union, simply because you and your world don't like that we decided to not let our survival be decided by the whims of the larger universe."

The Astrian Senator looked to the rest of the Senate.

"Fellow Senators, I urge you to dismiss this proposal. There are other, better ways to compromise this matter then turning not one but two races into criminals for simply being what they are. Just as there is no need to limit the right for people to decide what happens to their own body."

[Senator Danar Tassar]

Since a reaction from the Consensus is expected and predictable Tassar waited first to see if other factions wanted to react.

[Nehket Aeka]

Hearing how the only reaction to the proposal is "No, you're proposal is bad.", Aeka smoothly switched to the next prepared proposal. It is a watered down combination of changes to the veolian culture, and a change in the Union on a topic that has been bugging the veolians for a while now.

"I'm sorry you feel that way senator Doshima. Though I would like to point out that your idea of 'bordering on racism' seems applicable to your earlier accusations of inequality in the veolian commonwealth as well. But let's leave those things behind us than and look towards other options.

The Veolian Commonwalth is willing to change, as long as others are willing to change as well."

One of her aides handed her a datapad with some notes.

"We are willing to prohibit the trading of slaves to change the notion of ownership to one of lifelong bonding. This changes a potential slave's decision to be bonded to a master to a voluntary choice made by the slave and master when signing the bonding contract. This way the relation between slave and master would remain as it is, while removing from it the concept of ownership.

In return for this we propose a Union-wide prohibition of artificial birth control and artificially induced abortion, unless necessary for medical reasons, so as to offer every unborn child a chance at existence."

Aeka looked at the senate expectantly.

[Senator Harek]

"Dear Senators,

I understand that slaves are part of the culture of a faction. Therefor I would also look in a cultural way for a solution.

Chancellor Nehket Aeka, your proposal has not only impact on the culture but also the on the existence of a race. In the great discussion of live, the existence of artificial life has been discussed. They have a complete non-biological way of procreation. So your proposal would mean their extinction.

Maybe we should think in a more noble direction."

[0x71A7E17A (mask of 0x71A7E17A)]

0x71A7E17A455 Method Not Valid in This State

Senator Harek [2015-07-30 20:20] > "They have a complete non-biological way of procreation. So your proposal would mean their extinction."

Non sequitur.

[Nehket Aeka]

"I too do not understand how you have reached this conclusion, senator Harek. I propose that the use of artificial birth control is prohibited. Species that have the natural capacity for birth control are in no way hindered by this, nor is artificial life.

Would you care to explain how you see this?"

[Lord-Senator Kachiso Doshima]

Lord-Senator Doshima pinched the bridge of his nose and quietly sighed at Senator Hareks argument. Kachiso decided to show his college a little mercy.

"Chancellor, I think your proposal on slavery holds great merit. However, what you ask in return is not a proper suggestion."

He paused to make sure he had everyones attention.

"As I already said, I believe every person, every individual, has the right to decide what happens to their own body. This includes abortion and birth control. But there are numerous other reasons why these practices should be allowed.

There are many people who don't know that they carry an STD, yet these people don't transmit these STDs because they use birth control, such as condoms. Either we would require everyone to undergo tests for STDs or expect people to abstain from sexual relationships, neither are realistic goals.

I am sure everyone here knows that raising a child is an expensive endeavour. Would you expect an adolescent to be able to raise a child? Would it not be more human to abort a pregnancy in such cases, then let lives be ruined because some law prevents them from making a responsible choice?

You would artificially increase poverty, the number of orphans and possibly even child abuse. While decreasing overall public health.

And then there is the notion of the fairness of what you ask, Chancellor. The way you make it sound suggests your proposal only applies to those races that bare live young. There are numerous races here that lay eggs or reproduce in some other way. Should these not be included in such a proposal to restrict birth control and abortion? While the Veolians may be one of the factions that are impacted more by banning slavery, it would still apply to the rest of the Union. Your proposal should also apply to the whole Union."

[Senator Mathi-ey C'b'rton of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons]

"The government of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons has asked me to state the following regarding the current angle this debate has taken:

Abstinence is very much a realistic goal and it is in fact quite normal on Highmons. It is not always easy for those who practice it, but it certainly is not unrealistic.

Those who are mature and capable enough to voluntarily decide to engage in carnal activities should by definition also be mature and capable enough to decide not to do so - lest one could not say they were able to decide at all. Since they have this level of maturity, it stands to reason that they should be able to weigh into their decision such factors as their current age, the risk of disease, and the financial burden of childcare.

Our nation protests against the suggestion that the current proposal removes the option of making a responsible choice. It merely places that choice elsewhere in the process."

The Senator seemed to be reading a statement by her government. For now she paused, though she had several more pages on her datapad - perhaps to be used at a later time?

[Atheos]

After sitting silently for the longest time in the chambers of the senate, minding other matters, senator Atheos stood up and raised his voice.
"The Astai Republic applauds the Veolian Commonwealth for their initiative on seeking compromise in such a sensitive matter. This being said we believe in the freedom and sovereignty of all members of the union and are saddened by any legistlation that effects the laws of union members on social matters.

Despite our dislike for union interference in member laws, we could live under rules limiting artificial birth control and abortion. In the Astai Republic all babies are cherised. Sometimes it does happen that human teens have babies before they are capable of raising those babies, Senator Mathi-ey C'b'rton it is in their genes of their species that such desires are created. We forgive them for these things.

These babies are not abandoned, and these young parents are not left alone as Senator Kachiso Doshima, we have support systems for them to help them with their choices."

[Senator Danar Tassar]

"When a Consult or family either cannot care for a baby and there is no replacement family or consult, then the baby has no hope for a healthy future. In such cases, is birth control then for medical reasons?

We of the Consensus are afraid that this proposal cannot hold before we of the Union are on one line to what extend 'medical reasons' go. And since this proposal is about providing every unborn child a chance of existence, then when qualifies an unborn child as unborn child? Will abstinence not be a way of artificial birth control and therefore every child who could have been born during the abstinence is denied its possible life?"

[Senator Harek]

" The procreation of a species can vary much like Lord-Senator Kachiso Doshima says. Therefor the word 'artificial' just like 'medical reason' can vary much. It is for this reason Chancellor Nehket Aeka that I would not like to restrain a species by a law. Some people want children but cannot and others can but do not want to. I want to give each species and culture their own choice in this.

Therefor I would look more towards a exchange in cultural values. Nobility and religious order are hold high by various faction while others hold high equality and personal freedom. The Hiocan Society is willing to give priority in order of precedence to people belonging to nobility, religious order or others depending on the culture. Various classes can be made for priority. This way we have exchange of cultural values and hopefully this will bring the Unoin more together."

[Nehket Aeka]

"Priority in what, exactly?"

She saw some potential in the idea, but Aeka wanted to be sure that it wasn't another 'No' disguised as an insult.