Fwurg

[Senator Ardios Eldrilith]

"members of the cabinet,

Our economic annalists have just delivered me some grave news. We have a serious negative cash flow due to the current military expenses. I guess this does not come as a shock to you since war is expensive. However the war funds and the ministry of defence contingency budget will be depleted in 7 . Unfortunately our predictions show us that the war will be not over in less than 7 .

Therefor we propose to raise war tax. I believe we have to vote on this before we can do it. We propose a war tax of 100 / faction / which should provide 2000 / giving us a lot more breathing room financially. The alternative would be bundling the resources of the contingency budgets of other ministries and using them as an additional war fund. I believe this could be used as a temporary solution or to lower the war tax amount.

Please tell me what you think and if I missed something."

[Chancellor Dewa Lanadi]

"Minister, could you give us the relevant numbers of the current levels of the war funds, the Ministry of Defence's contingency budget, and the expenses we are incurring due to the war?

That way we can get a concrete idea of the amount of deficit we need to overcome, and the magnitude of the funds related to the situation."

[Senator Ardios Eldrilith]

"Of course."

Senator Ardios Eldrilith opened a spread sheet on the screen.

Situation on 292.

War Fund
Current funds: 9523

Extended War Fund
Current funds: 4150

contingency Budget of the Ministry of Defence
Current funds: 9500

Total funds available: 23173


Expenses:

4 x Defensive Union Defence Fleet -> 1000
4 x Combat Ready Union Defence Fleet -> 2000

Total expenses per : 3000

[Chancellor Dewa Lanadi]

"I agree. With the current expenses we will be forced to raise war taxes. I do not think that we should use the contingency budgets of other ministries as a replacement for war taxes at this moment. I will have a proposal for war taxes drafted.

In the meantime, how many worlds have requested subsidies for sending their fleets to assist? And how many worlds have actually sent fleets?"

[Senator Ardios Eldrilith]

"We have not seen any requests for the subsidy. In fact if worlds would start to request it it would only accelerate the current situation since it is not even factored in the calculation."

[Lord-Senator Kachiso Doshima]

"The Astrian Colonial Authority hasn't requested for the subsidy because we do not require them. To us it is a matter of pride and a sense of duty to help our allies in this manner. Requesting reimbursement for this is considered unseemly among my people."

Kachiso explained.

"Chancellor, could the funds freed up from the Ministry of Justice be used to cover the extra costs? At least for the time being? As we have yet to determine exactly where to allocate these funds we might as well use them where they are needed."

[Atheos]

"I think that whilst in principle the contingency budgets of ministries should not serve as the second line of military budget. In practice these contingency budgets often in up in funds for the improvement of unity or such. In this case the war may be a good contingency to spend such money on.

A secondary source of income: The budgets for ministries were calculated for a 20 period, currently the period is over 50 and to my recollection the budgets have not been changed. This frees up 1 and a half times the combined contingency budgets over such a 50 period which could be devoted to this purpose, though I feel approval is needed from all union members for such a grand redirection of funds.

Tertiary, there may be some discrepancy between the actual expenditure of the union and the tax income, owing to the fact that the taxes paid by union members have increased since last the budgets were calculated. This discrepancy might be levied to fund union fleets. The aforementioned approval of union members should take place for such a change in spending.

I mention these not because I am opposed to raising additional wartaxes, merely as alternatives. If war taxes are put to a vote and are voted against, these might prove additional sources of funding."

[Chancellor Dewa Lanadi]

The chancellor calmly listens to the arguments and ideas for sources of funding before replying.

"Minister Atheos, I would like to take a moment to point out that the budgers for ministries are not calculated over a 20 period, but are instead calculated as a budget per . There has not, and does not need to be, a change in the ministries' contingency budgets, since it does not matter how long an electoral period lasts. The budget per remains the same — and there is no need to get approval from the senate for spending contingency budget.

While it is true that we can use the Union's significant income stream to provide a virtual buffer, I can assure you that the Ministry of Finance is always a very busy place if funds are suddenly being spent in large quantities instead of gradually over time."

"As to the contingency funds of the Ministry of Justice. As long as the ministry exists, we ought not to undermine it's independce by appropriating it's funding, nor should we hasten the dissolution of the ministry because we are at war. It is, of course, fully possible for the Minister of Justice to appoint a certain amount of contingency budget to the war effort, but this is the decision of the Minister of Justice alone."

"The fact that the income of the Union has slowly been increasing while the available funding to actual needs of the Union has remained stable is something that requires investigation. As I have already discussed with the Minister of Commerce, there appears to be a surplus of bureaucracy surrounding the problem. This is something we should look into, but I feel this matter would not receive the attention it deserves if we do so during wartime."


"I think we should not forget how we ended up with this war.

If we free up funding from somewhere else this will have two effects: Union members will slowly forget that wars cost money, and that this cost is born by all of us, regardless of how the war started. As this war was started due to negligence of a Union member, I think it is of importance that every member is remembered of the the direct and irrevocable relation between being at war and raised taxes.

Furthermore, if we do use an alternative source of funding this will create a situation where ,at a later point in time when the war has diminished in importance due to the passing of time, Union members will fail to understand why other endavours cannot be funded. We would, in essence, be borrowing taxes from the future, without a guarantee that we can repay that loan."

"As it stands, I see no reason not to open a vote to levy war taxes. It is the most understandable form of taxation as it directly relates to the problem at hand and does not create problems in the future.

If anyone has any objection to the raising of war taxes, I suggest they voice them before the end of 295, as I will be opening a vote at the start of 296."

[Senator Ardios Eldrilith]

"I see no problem in delaying the vote for another two turns if the Ministry of finance contributes the necessary 6000 to maintain the military fleets in the meantime..."

[Chancellor Dewa Lanadi]

"Ah, I see the misunderstanding. My apologies minister, I misread the presented numbers. I will open the vote on the saturday of this . If there any objections, I suggest they are voiced quickly."

[Chancellor Dewa Lanadi]

"Though I have to add, Minister, that your ministry is the only ministry of which the contingency budget is actually meant for the contingency of war.", she adds with a smile.

[Lord-Senator Kachiso Doshima]

"Hold on, Minister Eldrilith. According to your calculations we had 23173 available for the Union fleets in 292 and it costs 3000 per to maintain the fleets. Now that I mention it, it seems you forgot to include the buffering for the Union fleets, which is good for 1000 per . Funds specifically for these circumstances.

Including these funds leaves 2000 per to be covered by the available funds. This should leave the funds available at this moment at 19173 . Assuming the vote passes and that the war tax is immediately put into effect it should take about 3 for another 2000 per to become available for the upkeep of the fleets. That leaves 6000 to be covered by the available funds, which it can do with relative ease."

The Astrian Minister's voice became sceptical.

"And yet you require another 6000 from the Ministry of Finance? Would you care to explain for what exactly you need these funds, Minister?"

((OOC: Ministry of Defence page for reference.))

[Senator Ardios Eldrilith]

((OOC: I see the 'Upkeep Defence Fleets buffering' on the ministry budget now as well, I have no idea what it means, is it for paying defensive upkeep?? I always expected it to be additional cost since the Union runs things on a larger scale. Can Brend or Mercury give their spin on this cost?))

"Much appreciated Chancellor. It is good to see that you appreciate my sense of urgency.

I will have to talk with my financial advisors about this budget you are talking about Minister Doshima. We will have to get back to you on that. You must understand Minister that if we run out of our war funds we will have lost the war already. I merely stressed the fact that we have a negative tax flow and that waiting around for opinions is an expensive thing to do."

[Brend]

((OOC: As far as I am aware that is an Operational cost, which is simply there to eat moneys. I always envisioned it as additional costs related to the upkeep of fleets without actual Home Ports and such. In effect like Chriz said: additional costs due to scale and flexibility.))

[Lord-Senator Kachiso Doshima]

((OOC: I understand it's there to eat moneys, but considering the name it just seemed to make sense it was also there to help cover the upkeep of active fleets. Also, not all Operational costs are just there to eat moneys. The Upkeep Defence Fleets for example, that is just the actual upkeep for fleets. So I am not really sure if this Upkeep Defence Fleets buffering could not be used for this. Even if it is just temporarily, or perhaps because it would only be temporary.))

[Brend]

((OOC: You are right that the costs are operational, so we could change them via vote. But I think that the buffering is necessary because the fleets have no actual home port, so this is there to compensate for the "magic distance cost factor", which is still incurred during wartime. Of course, I am strongly vested in the situation, playing the chancellor and having my planet be literally under threat, so I think it would be better if you contact Mercury for this — I'm probably somewhat biased.))

[Chriz]

((OOC: I agree, an opinion from Mercury would be useful since he is the least biased at this moment.))

[Gerben]

((OOC: In my opinion the operational costs of Ministries are simply there to sink a bit of money in the "Superpower" perks of the Union, such as her special rules with regards to the Union Defence Fleets and the Bozzy Spine.

Though these are said to be operational costs, and the senate could pass a vote to change them, I've always considered them to be more or less fixed costs the Union incurs, simply to maintain the infrastructure as a faction. During the previous war with the Mandalorians and despite rule changes, the operational costs have remained the same.))

[Dragonmaster352]

((OOC: A have started a topic about this in the discussion forum and asked mercury for his opinion here: http://www.fwurg.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3106))