Fwurg

[Fecta Legin]

"I think that whether consuming your own environment is or is not evolution is of little matter to state if someone is alive. Therefore I propose the following statement:

Evolution is the gradual change of a species over time to adapt itself to an environment.
Devolution is the gradual change of a species over time to where it is getting less adapted to an environment.

The difference between evolution and devolution is of no importance to determine whether a species is considered alive or not, as both are a gradual change.

I propose to debate a little further about the role of such a change in our definition of life."

He paused a brief moment before to continue: "I think a species needs to evolve to survive, but I think a species can be considered alive even when it does not adapt itself one way or another over time."

[Dewa Nishkor Sardan]

"I agree with Fecta Legin, a species can be considered alive even if it does not adapt to its environment."

[Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons]

"Shall we continue with the final topic then?" He inquired. A consensus seemed to have been reached after all.

[Dewa Nishkor Sardan]

"I second my honoured colleague Mazeron's motion to proceed. It seems we have reached a consensus on the issue of evolution."

[Danar Sylvia]

"Then it is decided, evolution is not a necessity to be alive.

The second last theorem is: 'Life must have intuition'. Were we define intuition as a set of knowledge and reactions given with our birth which we use in our life to make choices and actions, sometimes even without reason.

You are free to discuss the conditions of 'intuition' further, but please keep it related to the conditions to be alive."

[Dewa Nishkor Sardan]

"I find the concept of intuition as it is used here arbitrary. It makes allusions to birth, but it does not clarify when something is birthed. Furthermore, it makes the assumption that it is used during life, which makes it seem like reasoning in a circle.

So without any further argumentation, and to avoid ending up in a the mire that is the definition of intuition, I propose that Life does not need have intuition."

[Fecta Legin]

Legin thought for a while, then eventually came to a conclusion: "After careful thought, I agree with Dewa Nishkor Sardan. Although phenomena which I consider alive do show signs 'instinctual behaviour', by lack of a better word, these phenomena are already covered by the second theorem. Therefore I second the proposal to scrap intuition out of the definition of life."

[Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons]

"I believe that leaves us heading towards the closing of this discussion, does it not?" Mazeran concluded after nodding in agreement.

[Danar Sylvia]

"It is decided then, intuition has no special part in the definition of life. This leaves us to the fifth and last theorem, 'Life must be connected to the force. If something has no connection to the force, it is not alive.' I am very interested in the discussion what will follow." After that, Sylvia took her seat again and gave the floor to the attendants.

[Dewa Nishkor Sardan]

"As I brought forward this issue, I would like to elaborate on it. As we know, it is difficult to determine whether an individual is strong in the Force.

However, when we look at the composition of the Jedi order, we can see a certain pattern. So, I propose to define this criterium as follows: 'if it has been shown something can manipulate the force, it must be alive.' This neatly categorizes droids is not living, as it is well known that droids can not manipulate the force; ask any Jedi.

Of course, this leaves a lot of interpretation open, but it is the minimal definition I would use."

[Fecta Legin]

"I agree with your definition, but you made a mistake in your conclusion. When something can manipulate the force is alive, it does not say that something what can not manipulate the force is not alive. Following this, what do we say about objects and phenomena showing no signs of connection with the force? Within the Consensus we see plants as alive at this moment, and the set of rules defined in theorem two confirms this, but we have not determined a scientific way to confirm the connection with the force."

[Dewa Nishkor Sardan]

"You are correct, Fecta Legin. I did indeed derive a conclusion that did not follow from my original statement.

Please, let me correct this by adding the following: 'if it has been shown that something has not connection to the force, it can not be alive'. This would rule out droids as being alive. Furthermore, my two statements make no claim as to the aliveness of unknowns.

As to the example of plants: I am fairly sure plants do have a connection with the force, as there are known rituals that allow force sensitive individuals to sense the plant through the force. Though you counter this by an example of a Jedi pushing away an iron girder with the force, there is a difference. The jedi only affects the girder, while the plant is passively sensed on a deeper level.

Unfortunately, as already pointed out, we have no scientific way of determining in a scientific way the connection with the force. This is why I propose my statements as conditionals; only if it has been shown can we derive anything."

[Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons]

"Science is limited in what it can do. Many things hold true that science cannot prove and many things science 'proves' are untrue. We should not let the limits of science limit our understanding of the world around us.

If the Force is seen as a different way of looking at the concept of the soul, I see no reason to deny the connection to the Force, though it should be worded in a way that is more religiously neutral, rather than trying to push the Jedi religious beliefs into law.

After all, we are making statements for the entirety of the Union, not just those of the Jedi faith."

[Dewa Nishkor Sardan]

"I do not necessarily require the interpretation of the Force and the Soul, it might be possible for both concepts to exist at the same time.

Regardless,I had no intention of pushing Jedi religious believes into Union law, honoured colleague. In fact, I wish to keep our finally verdict as neutral as possible. I am open to alternative wordings, but I think my original wording 'If it has been shown something can manipulate the force, it must be alive. If it has been shown that something has not connection to the force, it can not be alive' is neutral enough?

As an aside, I would like for you to, at a later moment, elaborate on your statement that many things science 'proves' are untrue, Mazeron. It sounds like an intriguing proposition."

[Fecta Legin]

"We of the Consensus can live with this statement. For every being for which such a connection is unknown, we can use the six rules, earlier discussed."

[Danar Sylvia]

When it was clear nobody had any more objections, Danar Sylvia stood up and entered the circle again: "It looks like consensus has been reached about the sixth theorem. And as this was the last theorem to discuss, it looks like we now have a definition of life.

To summary:
If it has been shown something can manipulate the force, it must be alive. If it has been shown that something has not connection to the force, it can not be alive.

when nothing can be said about the connection to the force about a group, the set of six rules will apply, to be alive, a group then must:
- Eat
- Grow
- respond to stimuli
- reproduce, which involves at least a biological process
- adapt to their environment
- maintain a homeostasis

If you do not agree with this definition, please say so. Otherwise the Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life will reach its goal and have defined a definition about how to define something alive."

[Fecta Legin]

"I have a small grammatical correction" Legin said, "I propose to change the part of 'something has not connection to the force' to 'something has no connection to the force'. So removing the t from 'not'. The Consensus has no substantive comments."

[Dewa Nishkor Sardan]

"I have no problems with the stated definition. I do, however, have a feeling that we could have arrived at a more concise definition if some of the other involved parties would have expressed their views on the subject.

Regardless, this is the consensus we seem to have reached."

[Danar Sylvia]

"Seeing that nobody else seems to disagree," Danar Sylvia said while she stood up again, "the definition of life is determined as:

If it has been shown something can manipulate the force, it must be alive. If it has been shown that something has no connection to the force, it can not be alive.

when nothing can be said about the connection to the force about a group, the set of six rules will apply, to be alive, a group then must:
- Eat
- Grow
- respond to stimuli
- reproduce, which involves at least a biological process
- adapt to their environment
- maintain a homeostasis

We, the board of the discussion, will write a final report and sent it to the Union Senate.

As the Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life has now come to an end, the Teprogrenaian Consensus would like to thank the following parties for their participation in this discussion:

The Divine Fiefdom of Highmons
The Silver Forests of Remunzia
The Veolian Commonwealth
The Praetorian Empire
The Sundarian Federation
The Limëan Republic
The Unified Republic of Darya"

She took her time to grant every participant an equal amount of grattitude, and she spoke with a clear voice and steady tone.

"We also would like to thank the Miomanian Colonists," Sylvia said, while looking at Acethoo, "and Chancellor Acethoo in particular for taking the time to attend to this event.

The Consensus finally has two announcement to make. We have the feeling that Although the factions have agreed to come here, the discussion could have been more vivid if they brought more input.

And finally, all attendants are welcome to stay some time and have a final talk if they like.
For those who leave, we wish you a save trip home and: Avé."

((OOC: This document is presented in the senate. I consider the discussion finished. People are welcome to stay and have some after talk.))