The Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life
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The Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life
Danar Sylvia » Sun May 20, 2012 2:32 pm
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Danar Sylvia - PC
((OOC: Because the previous discussion appeared to be unclear, I have revamped the entire discussion. Now it should have a way better structure and more clearance. The players who have announced to participate are:
The Divine Fiefdom of Highmons
The Silver Forests of Remunzia
The Veolian Commonwealth
The Praetorian Empire
Sundarian Federation
The Limëan Republic
The Unified Republic of Darya
Teprogrenaian Consensus
Players who still like to join are welcome to do so, but please announce that you recently joined it in you first post to prevent my guards from shooting at you
))
When a delegation approaches Teprogrenaian space, they get clearance to approach the home planet, Dhiahamara. At approach of Dhiahamara, a weird looking moon orbiting around the planet is coming in sight. When the ship of the delegation is coming closer, the moon does appear not be a moon, but a space station! The station was superstructure consisting of a central construction with three arms, each with a smaller construction of its own. In its entirety had the station a sinister appearance. With his maximum span of 6000 kilometer it was a formidable construction.
The appointed closing vector to the landing site of the congress building supported a nice view over one of the big cities of the Teprogrenaian Consensus. With its tall buildings and airlines.
Then near the edge of the city was a clearly military station. Surrounded by laser fences and protected by shield domes. At one point there where giant surface to space canons where visible, designed to shoot destroyers out of the sky.
Finally the congress building comes in sight. It existed of a ring shaped construction with in the middle a big building. The ring looked like it was meant for supportive functions. To keep intruders away of the main building and probably to support a shield dome, but at the moment there was no sight of any kind of shield. At the every entrance of the ring there were some real obvious guards. Special designed Fecta who were at least three meters high and although there were no visible guns, they probably would have some big ones, and additionally shield generators. There was no way to get past these guards whith a simple hovercar, one would need a tank for that.
In the ring the complex was nice and open. The open terrace was an excellent place for an informal talk in the sun. And it was designed accordingly. Benches, sunshades and the availability for consumptions. The building itself offered housing for all the announced guests and their wishes. The different wings were equipped with climate control units to provide the best atmosphere for the species residing in the suites. Although the building seemed to be just the right size for the occasion, there were still some rooms left for unexpected guests. The building was quite fitting for the discussion, but it looked like it was repurposed to fit the meeting.
Inside the whole complex there were no obvious guards. There were teprogrena, some Fecta but mostly Danar, walking around, to assist where it was acquired. Both in helping the guests as helping unwanted guests to the door. They did the best they could to remain in the background and let the guests unbothered. The serving was done by LEP servant droids.
At the start of The Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life where all guest welcomed to a big auditorium where the host did her introduction speech.
The Divine Fiefdom of Highmons
The Silver Forests of Remunzia
The Veolian Commonwealth
The Praetorian Empire
Sundarian Federation
The Limëan Republic
The Unified Republic of Darya
Teprogrenaian Consensus
Players who still like to join are welcome to do so, but please announce that you recently joined it in you first post to prevent my guards from shooting at you
))When a delegation approaches Teprogrenaian space, they get clearance to approach the home planet, Dhiahamara. At approach of Dhiahamara, a weird looking moon orbiting around the planet is coming in sight. When the ship of the delegation is coming closer, the moon does appear not be a moon, but a space station! The station was superstructure consisting of a central construction with three arms, each with a smaller construction of its own. In its entirety had the station a sinister appearance. With his maximum span of 6000 kilometer it was a formidable construction.
The appointed closing vector to the landing site of the congress building supported a nice view over one of the big cities of the Teprogrenaian Consensus. With its tall buildings and airlines.
Then near the edge of the city was a clearly military station. Surrounded by laser fences and protected by shield domes. At one point there where giant surface to space canons where visible, designed to shoot destroyers out of the sky.
Finally the congress building comes in sight. It existed of a ring shaped construction with in the middle a big building. The ring looked like it was meant for supportive functions. To keep intruders away of the main building and probably to support a shield dome, but at the moment there was no sight of any kind of shield. At the every entrance of the ring there were some real obvious guards. Special designed Fecta who were at least three meters high and although there were no visible guns, they probably would have some big ones, and additionally shield generators. There was no way to get past these guards whith a simple hovercar, one would need a tank for that.
In the ring the complex was nice and open. The open terrace was an excellent place for an informal talk in the sun. And it was designed accordingly. Benches, sunshades and the availability for consumptions. The building itself offered housing for all the announced guests and their wishes. The different wings were equipped with climate control units to provide the best atmosphere for the species residing in the suites. Although the building seemed to be just the right size for the occasion, there were still some rooms left for unexpected guests. The building was quite fitting for the discussion, but it looked like it was repurposed to fit the meeting.
Inside the whole complex there were no obvious guards. There were teprogrena, some Fecta but mostly Danar, walking around, to assist where it was acquired. Both in helping the guests as helping unwanted guests to the door. They did the best they could to remain in the background and let the guests unbothered. The serving was done by LEP servant droids.
At the start of The Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life where all guest welcomed to a big auditorium where the host did her introduction speech.
Last edited by Danar Sylvia on Sun May 20, 2012 3:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Danar Sylvia » Sun May 20, 2012 2:51 pm
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Danar Sylvia - PC
When all the participants had taken their seats, A female Danar took place behind the Lectern on the podium. She stood with a straight back and spoke with a loud and clear voice.
“Welcome, at The Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life! I am Danar Sylvia forwarded by the Teprogrenaian Consensus to be your host during of this congress. On behalf of the Teprogrenaian it is a pleasure to organize such an important but more importantly, such an interesting meeting of so many brilliant minds in our galaxy. Therefore I am glad that you are all here now”
After which Sylvia summed the participants.
“I hope that all of you has been shown your suites and that the facilities are to satisfaction. If there are any questions or complaints, please tell me or one of the aids available in the complex. We will do whatever we can to help you all having a pleasurable stay here.”
Sylvia pauses for a moment to look at all the people gathered in the auditorium, then continued.
“Now for the discussion itself: There will be some time to introduce yourself, to get to know each other and to make your point of view clear to the others. Then there will be a discussion around some propositions, or theorem. This will create some guidelines for the discussion. Every participant will have the opportunity to share his or her idea’s around these propositions, followed by a discussion about these idea’s. Every theorem will be closed with a vote on a good definition about the aspect of life around the specific proposition. In this way we not only hope to achieve a better understanding, but also to define a set of idea’s the union can use to determine one is alive or not.
The introductions can be made till 27-May-2012. Then every participant have two weeks to state his or her opinion about a proposition, followed by two weeks of discussion and is finished by one week of voting for a new definition of life around the theorem.
The first theorem will be about the cognitive abilities of life. We all know that droids are not alive. But yet they have a certain will to survive and show signs of self awareness. One could say that the main reason a droid is not alive is because it does not learn. Therefore the first proposition will be: 'Life must learn. If it cannot learn, it cannot be alive.'
The second theorem will be around the more physical aspects of life. Until recent, life appeared to be a physical matter. Biologists even have determined a set of rules to determine one is physically alive. Therefore the second proposition will be: Life must:
The third theorem followed out of how life is emerged. Although we are not aware of the religious view of every one of you. It is our believe we are emerged out of cells and are evolved into the creatures we are now. The proposition followed from this will be: 'Life must evolve. Not evolving creatures can be considered not alive.'
The last theorem we have prepared is about the reactions of life. We are given some knowledge with our birth. We use this given knowledge to act and react and some time we don’t even know why. I am talking about intuition. The fourth and last proposition will be therefore: 'Life must have intuition'. Were we define intuition as a set of knowledge and reactions given with our birth which we use in our life to make choices and actions, sometimes even without reason.
Please feel free to take a breath in our facilities or to catch some fresh air outside as we understand a discussion might sometimes be exhausting. If you don’t feel to join a certain topic or want to take a break, do as you like, this whole meeting is merely voluntarily we cannot expect from everybody to enjoy everything for the entire time.
If you have the feeling something is missing, or you have certain aspects you seemed fitting to discus, feel free to inform us so we can forward it in the discussion. Of course we are also available for a talk in the downtime between discussions.
And last but not least, although we do not expect any kind of outside troubles, and we really doubt there will be any, I will assure you that the Teprogrenaian Consensus do everything within its power to keep you all safe and protected.
I thank you and again, welcome to this wonderful meeting.”
((OOC: The introductions will be one turn. Every theorem will have 5 turns, two turns to post your theory about the proposition, two turns to react and to define a new proposition and one turn to vote. so the schedule would look like:
Introductions: end of turn 51
first theorem: end of turn 53, discussion 55, vote 56
seccond theorem: end of turn 58, discussion 60, vote 61
third theorem: end of turn 63, discussion 65, vote 66
fourth theorem: end of turn 68, discussion 70, vote 71
meaning that if all goes according to the schedule, the discussion will have a closure around turn 72))
“Welcome, at The Great Intergalactic Discussion of Life! I am Danar Sylvia forwarded by the Teprogrenaian Consensus to be your host during of this congress. On behalf of the Teprogrenaian it is a pleasure to organize such an important but more importantly, such an interesting meeting of so many brilliant minds in our galaxy. Therefore I am glad that you are all here now”
After which Sylvia summed the participants.
“I hope that all of you has been shown your suites and that the facilities are to satisfaction. If there are any questions or complaints, please tell me or one of the aids available in the complex. We will do whatever we can to help you all having a pleasurable stay here.”
Sylvia pauses for a moment to look at all the people gathered in the auditorium, then continued.
“Now for the discussion itself: There will be some time to introduce yourself, to get to know each other and to make your point of view clear to the others. Then there will be a discussion around some propositions, or theorem. This will create some guidelines for the discussion. Every participant will have the opportunity to share his or her idea’s around these propositions, followed by a discussion about these idea’s. Every theorem will be closed with a vote on a good definition about the aspect of life around the specific proposition. In this way we not only hope to achieve a better understanding, but also to define a set of idea’s the union can use to determine one is alive or not.
The introductions can be made till 27-May-2012. Then every participant have two weeks to state his or her opinion about a proposition, followed by two weeks of discussion and is finished by one week of voting for a new definition of life around the theorem.
The first theorem will be about the cognitive abilities of life. We all know that droids are not alive. But yet they have a certain will to survive and show signs of self awareness. One could say that the main reason a droid is not alive is because it does not learn. Therefore the first proposition will be: 'Life must learn. If it cannot learn, it cannot be alive.'
The second theorem will be around the more physical aspects of life. Until recent, life appeared to be a physical matter. Biologists even have determined a set of rules to determine one is physically alive. Therefore the second proposition will be: Life must:
- - Eat
- Grow
- respond to stimuli
- reproduce
- adapt to their environment
- maintain a homeostasis.
The third theorem followed out of how life is emerged. Although we are not aware of the religious view of every one of you. It is our believe we are emerged out of cells and are evolved into the creatures we are now. The proposition followed from this will be: 'Life must evolve. Not evolving creatures can be considered not alive.'
The last theorem we have prepared is about the reactions of life. We are given some knowledge with our birth. We use this given knowledge to act and react and some time we don’t even know why. I am talking about intuition. The fourth and last proposition will be therefore: 'Life must have intuition'. Were we define intuition as a set of knowledge and reactions given with our birth which we use in our life to make choices and actions, sometimes even without reason.
Please feel free to take a breath in our facilities or to catch some fresh air outside as we understand a discussion might sometimes be exhausting. If you don’t feel to join a certain topic or want to take a break, do as you like, this whole meeting is merely voluntarily we cannot expect from everybody to enjoy everything for the entire time.
If you have the feeling something is missing, or you have certain aspects you seemed fitting to discus, feel free to inform us so we can forward it in the discussion. Of course we are also available for a talk in the downtime between discussions.
And last but not least, although we do not expect any kind of outside troubles, and we really doubt there will be any, I will assure you that the Teprogrenaian Consensus do everything within its power to keep you all safe and protected.
I thank you and again, welcome to this wonderful meeting.”
((OOC: The introductions will be one turn. Every theorem will have 5 turns, two turns to post your theory about the proposition, two turns to react and to define a new proposition and one turn to vote. so the schedule would look like:
Introductions: end of turn 51
first theorem: end of turn 53, discussion 55, vote 56
seccond theorem: end of turn 58, discussion 60, vote 61
third theorem: end of turn 63, discussion 65, vote 66
fourth theorem: end of turn 68, discussion 70, vote 71
meaning that if all goes according to the schedule, the discussion will have a closure around turn 72))
Fecta Legin » Wed May 23, 2012 2:38 pm
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Fecta Legin - PC
“I like to introduce myself. I am Fecta Legin, known as a great mind amongst my people. I have done studies about the effect of the extensive use of cybernetics on our people. Both on the mind and on the evolution of a teprogrenus. Although I must say the long term effects on the teprogrenus is naturally a research project over dozens of generations.
In the past I was always a supporter of the 6 rules of life, the same as in proposition two. However until recently I was unaware of the existence of the limeän transcendent. My intuition tells me they are not dead, but they do not directly follow the 6 rules of life. Forcing me to either reconsider my opinion of that what is living or my opinion over the limeän transcendent. I am very pleased my people reach consensus over organizing this congress allowing us the opportunity to exchange knowledge so we can learn and so I can test my theories against other great minds in the galaxy.”
In the past I was always a supporter of the 6 rules of life, the same as in proposition two. However until recently I was unaware of the existence of the limeän transcendent. My intuition tells me they are not dead, but they do not directly follow the 6 rules of life. Forcing me to either reconsider my opinion of that what is living or my opinion over the limeän transcendent. I am very pleased my people reach consensus over organizing this congress allowing us the opportunity to exchange knowledge so we can learn and so I can test my theories against other great minds in the galaxy.”
Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia » Thu May 24, 2012 7:31 pm
"First, allow me thank the Teprogrenaian Consensus for being so generous as to host this important discussion. I am Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia. I believe the proposed format is quite excellent, and I hope a consensus can be reached.
In regards to some of the points, I want to ask if the theorems apply to individual beings or to species as a whole? For example, it would be difficult to argue that any individual member of a species evolves, even though the species as a whole does. Likewise though a species may grow, a species cannot eat, but its individual members might."
((OOC: Thanks for clearing things up a bit, this makes things easier!))
In regards to some of the points, I want to ask if the theorems apply to individual beings or to species as a whole? For example, it would be difficult to argue that any individual member of a species evolves, even though the species as a whole does. Likewise though a species may grow, a species cannot eat, but its individual members might."
((OOC: Thanks for clearing things up a bit, this makes things easier!))
Nousythes Peoisus » Fri May 25, 2012 7:09 pm
"Of course, the Limëan Republic thanks the Teprogrenaian Consensus for hosting this conference to discuss this important matter. I am personally looking forward to discuss what can be called a lifeform and what could not.
We recognize that we are different than other lifeforms, for we have abandoned our organic ofspring. But we also believe that we do exist, although it is in a virtual environment. I hope we can all agree on this theory, for else everyone here can question it's existance. So the only question remains how to categorize our existance, for us, but also for future Limëan-like beings."
We recognize that we are different than other lifeforms, for we have abandoned our organic ofspring. But we also believe that we do exist, although it is in a virtual environment. I hope we can all agree on this theory, for else everyone here can question it's existance. So the only question remains how to categorize our existance, for us, but also for future Limëan-like beings."
Dewa Nishkor Sardan » Fri May 25, 2012 8:45 pm
"I join my colleague, Nousythes Peoisus, and senator Salixa in thanking the Teprogrenaian Consensus for their hosting of the conference. My name is Sardan, of house Dewa.
Although I believe the proposed format is one of excellent design, I believe a key component has been omitted from the field of discussion. Though little research has been done in this direction, we can not ignore the existence, and influence, of the Force. Therefore, I would like to propose a fifth theorem: 'Life must be connected to the force. If something has no connection to the force, it is not alive.'
I am sure that we can reach a consensus on what should be considered alive, while knowing with some certainty that this improved definition will make place for an even better definition of life as our understanding of the universe grows."
Although I believe the proposed format is one of excellent design, I believe a key component has been omitted from the field of discussion. Though little research has been done in this direction, we can not ignore the existence, and influence, of the Force. Therefore, I would like to propose a fifth theorem: 'Life must be connected to the force. If something has no connection to the force, it is not alive.'
I am sure that we can reach a consensus on what should be considered alive, while knowing with some certainty that this improved definition will make place for an even better definition of life as our understanding of the universe grows."
Danar Sylvia » Tue May 29, 2012 3:48 pm
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Danar Sylvia - PC
“To answer Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia her question, the propositions are about the aspect of life itself. This can both apply to individuals or to life in its whole. It is up to the participants of the discussion to interpret on what aspects of life the propositions should apply, and to reach consensus about the definitions of all the aspects of life. In short: we like you to discuss the validity of the proposition.
As of the point risen by Sardan, of house Dewa, we agree the force is an entity of great importance in our existence and therefore we agree to the forwarded proposition. Please state if you do not agree, otherwise we regard silence as an acceptance.
Are there any other people who like to introduce themselves? Otherwise we will continue to the discussion itself.”
As of the point risen by Sardan, of house Dewa, we agree the force is an entity of great importance in our existence and therefore we agree to the forwarded proposition. Please state if you do not agree, otherwise we regard silence as an acceptance.
Are there any other people who like to introduce themselves? Otherwise we will continue to the discussion itself.”
Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:02 pm
"My name is Mazeron, and I have been asked to speak on behalf of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons. I would like to insert that not all peoples believe in the existance of the Force. Despite of this, I feel it has a place in this discussion."
Danar Sylvia » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:38 pm
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Danar Sylvia - PC
Sometime later, after everybody was settled in and had the time to get to know each other the participants were invited to the real discussion. The chamber was designed is such a way all the participants could easily see and speak to each other. There was a balcony all the way around the chamber for spectators where they could sit and follow the discussion.
“Let’s all start with the great intergalactic discussion of life. I will open the first proposition. As a small recap:
The first two turns, thus till the end of turn 54, everybody got the time to state their believes around this proposition. Then there is some time for discussion, and in the end consensus can be reach about a definition about the proposition.”
The first theorem is about the cognitive abilities of life. We all know that droids are not alive. But yet they have a certain will to survive and show signs of self awareness. One could say that the main reason a droid is not alive is because it does not learn. Therefore the first proposition will be: 'Life must learn. If it cannot learn, it cannot be alive.'”
((OOC: Time to think and post idea’s around the proposition: till turn 54 / 17-Juni-2012))
“Let’s all start with the great intergalactic discussion of life. I will open the first proposition. As a small recap:
The first two turns, thus till the end of turn 54, everybody got the time to state their believes around this proposition. Then there is some time for discussion, and in the end consensus can be reach about a definition about the proposition.”
The first theorem is about the cognitive abilities of life. We all know that droids are not alive. But yet they have a certain will to survive and show signs of self awareness. One could say that the main reason a droid is not alive is because it does not learn. Therefore the first proposition will be: 'Life must learn. If it cannot learn, it cannot be alive.'”
((OOC: Time to think and post idea’s around the proposition: till turn 54 / 17-Juni-2012))
Dareal Noxim » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:10 pm
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Dareal Noxim - PC
"Hello everyone,
My name is Dareal Noxim, I am here representing the Praetorian Empire in this discussion.
On this first issue I must say that I have to disagree, not every life form is capable of actual learning. Many species are just simply not capable of learning. In this case we Praetorians make a strict distinction between Instincts, Evolving and Learning. Some life forms such as certain single cell organisms are only capable of evolving. Some other primitive species react purely on instincts. How do other factions see this? "
My name is Dareal Noxim, I am here representing the Praetorian Empire in this discussion.
On this first issue I must say that I have to disagree, not every life form is capable of actual learning. Many species are just simply not capable of learning. In this case we Praetorians make a strict distinction between Instincts, Evolving and Learning. Some life forms such as certain single cell organisms are only capable of evolving. Some other primitive species react purely on instincts. How do other factions see this? "
Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:59 pm
"I agree with Dareal that learning is not something that all life necessarily does. Simple life is incapable of learning no matter how well something is explained to it.
However, I must disagree with Danar Sylvia's assertion that droids are not alive because they are incapable of learning. Droids are not alive because they do not posses true souls - unlike living individuals, who were granted perfect souls by the Gods, droids are created by mortal men who give them false souls that make a mockery of the divine creation of life."
However, I must disagree with Danar Sylvia's assertion that droids are not alive because they are incapable of learning. Droids are not alive because they do not posses true souls - unlike living individuals, who were granted perfect souls by the Gods, droids are created by mortal men who give them false souls that make a mockery of the divine creation of life."
Fecta Legin » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:47 pm
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Fecta Legin - PC
“I am also of opinion this statement is incorrect. Although I do see a certain truth in it. A living being must indeed learn to prosper. Not because it will be defined as undead or sorts, but simply to survive. If a being, and this can be a bacteria, a plant or just a person, encounters a new situation, it must learn how to behave in order to survive. This learning process can exist in the form of natural selection, where the better adapted being survives and procreates, or the process can be a cognitive process where an individual learns from different situations. In both ways will the species in some way learn over time. But this process of learning is merely a mechanic to survive in the long term.
As Dareal Noxim said, it is possible to distinct different forms of learning. We of the Teprogrenaian Consensus have decided that the overall process is called learning, and learning can happen due to evolving or due to individual learning. Instinct is just a result of genetic transferred knowledge, and developed skills which happen in parts of the mind most people are not aware of. As different researches have proven, most people are capable of developing instincts their entire life. In these tests, most of the time the instinct gives the test subjects already the answer on certain situations or questions while they do not even know yet why that is the correct response. Only after quite some time the test subjects learned what their instinct already knew.
I do not agree with Mazeron of the Divine Fiedom of Highmons. What about clones? Do clones have a perfect soul or not? It is proven a clone can do react and feel like the genetic parents. And therefore it should have a similar soul. If it does not have a soul, then there should be a clear definition about what a soul is, just like there must be a clear definition about what learning is.”
As Dareal Noxim said, it is possible to distinct different forms of learning. We of the Teprogrenaian Consensus have decided that the overall process is called learning, and learning can happen due to evolving or due to individual learning. Instinct is just a result of genetic transferred knowledge, and developed skills which happen in parts of the mind most people are not aware of. As different researches have proven, most people are capable of developing instincts their entire life. In these tests, most of the time the instinct gives the test subjects already the answer on certain situations or questions while they do not even know yet why that is the correct response. Only after quite some time the test subjects learned what their instinct already knew.
I do not agree with Mazeron of the Divine Fiedom of Highmons. What about clones? Do clones have a perfect soul or not? It is proven a clone can do react and feel like the genetic parents. And therefore it should have a similar soul. If it does not have a soul, then there should be a clear definition about what a soul is, just like there must be a clear definition about what learning is.”
Dewa Nishkor Sardan » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:35 pm
"I must agree with Dareal Noxus and Mazeron of Highmons. There are forms of life that are not capable of learning new behaviour. Think for example, on the capabilities of the Nematode Unita. This complex multi-celled roundworm is utterly incapable of learning new behaviour, even if the benefits are explained and the behaviour is demonstrated. The Nematode Unita is instinctively driven to eat and mate; and no amount of convincing will make it behave otherwise"
"As Mazeron of Highmons, I disagree with the statement that droids are not alive because they are incapable of learning. Droids are, in fact, perfectly capable of learning. Even more so, some droids have even voiced a strong opinions on the matter of reprogramming. Regardless, I also am of the opinion that droids are not alive: droids do not have a connection with the force."
"In reply to Fecta Legin: it has been shown that clones do have a connection to the force. Therefore, I consider them to be alive."
"As Mazeron of Highmons, I disagree with the statement that droids are not alive because they are incapable of learning. Droids are, in fact, perfectly capable of learning. Even more so, some droids have even voiced a strong opinions on the matter of reprogramming. Regardless, I also am of the opinion that droids are not alive: droids do not have a connection with the force."
"In reply to Fecta Legin: it has been shown that clones do have a connection to the force. Therefore, I consider them to be alive."
Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:19 pm
"Ah yes, the issue of Clones. We have done extensive investigation into this matter, going back to the paper versions of the Holy Books.
After careful deliberation we have come to the conclusion that a clone may come to posses a perfect soul as any individual at the moment of creation.
Their bodies are created by acts of men, but so were the bodies of all but the first living things. As such, there is no difference between a cloned body and one born naturally.
Unlike droids, which are infused with souls by their mortal creator, clones are infused with souls by the Gods. As such, they posses perfect souls."
After careful deliberation we have come to the conclusion that a clone may come to posses a perfect soul as any individual at the moment of creation.
Their bodies are created by acts of men, but so were the bodies of all but the first living things. As such, there is no difference between a cloned body and one born naturally.
Unlike droids, which are infused with souls by their mortal creator, clones are infused with souls by the Gods. As such, they posses perfect souls."
Danar Sylvia » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:53 pm
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Danar Sylvia - PC
"It appears the opinion of everybody is quite clear. Do you wish to continue to discuss or shall we proceed by creating and voting over a definition about the proposition?"
Fecta Legin » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:02 pm
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Fecta Legin - PC
"I prefer to proceed. I do not have a proposal for a definition about the learning aspect of life. Therefore I propose to scratch this item of the list of definitions of life."
Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:43 am
"I second the motion to proceed, as well as the proposal to scratch the item of learning from the list of definitions of life."
Dewa Nishkor Sardan » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:31 pm
"I concur with my colleagues, and second the motion to proceed. I also agree that the condition of learning is not necessary for the definition of life."
Danar Sylvia » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:11 pm
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Danar Sylvia - PC
"Al right then, so it is decided: learning is not an aspect for the definition of life."
Because in the Teprogrenaian culture a decision is almost never final, Sylvia did not use a hammer or other symbolic item to close the issue. Instead, she just moved forward with the agenda.
"The second theorem will be around the more physical aspects of life. Until recent, life appeared to be a physical matter. Biologists even have determined a set of rules to determine one is physically alive. Therefore the second proposition will be: Life must:
Then she made clear the participants could start their second discussion
Because in the Teprogrenaian culture a decision is almost never final, Sylvia did not use a hammer or other symbolic item to close the issue. Instead, she just moved forward with the agenda.
"The second theorem will be around the more physical aspects of life. Until recent, life appeared to be a physical matter. Biologists even have determined a set of rules to determine one is physically alive. Therefore the second proposition will be: Life must:
- Eat
- Grow
- respond to stimuli
- reproduce
- adapt to their environment
- maintain a homoeostasis.
Then she made clear the participants could start their second discussion
Dewa Nishkor Sardan » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:42 pm
"I take the silence of my colleagues as agreement with the statement of Danar Sylvia. Am I correct in my assumption that my honoured colleagues view these statements meant as applicable on a group of individuals, and not to be used on a single individual? If so, I agree as well and propose to proceed to the next point of discussion.
However, before we continue, I wish to clarify the following: I agree with the statements, conditional upon the fact that no technological aid is required to reproduce. If technology is required to reproduce, I can not consider that group of entities alive."
However, before we continue, I wish to clarify the following: I agree with the statements, conditional upon the fact that no technological aid is required to reproduce. If technology is required to reproduce, I can not consider that group of entities alive."
Fecta Legin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:38 pm
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Fecta Legin - PC
"I do not agree that this list apply upon a group. This list appear to me especially as a check list for an individual and isolated encounter. For example, when an individual dies, that individual does not fulfil the set of rules anymore. Or when we encounter an unknown plant, we can use this list to determine whether the plant is alive or not. An even more interesting issue is when we artificially create a potential living being. This list then applies on that single individual.
I also doubt that Nousythes Peoisus agree with this list, because even considered the separate topics of the list in a very wide scale, the Limëan appear to be quite dead according to this list.They do not grow, do not adapt to their environment, do not maintain a homoeostasis. They could do this, but then it is out of my knowledge of their species."
I also doubt that Nousythes Peoisus agree with this list, because even considered the separate topics of the list in a very wide scale, the Limëan appear to be quite dead according to this list.They do not grow, do not adapt to their environment, do not maintain a homoeostasis. They could do this, but then it is out of my knowledge of their species."
Dewa Nishkor Sardan » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:36 pm
"So, if I understand you correctly: you do not consider a sterile individual as being alive?"
Mazeron of the Divine Fiefdom of Highmons » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:02 pm
"Surely these conditions cannot be applied to individuals? For example, human women become infertile after a certain age, but despite no longer being unable to reproduce, it would be quite harsh to declare them dead while they still breathe! And what of those who will never be able to procreate? If these conditions are applied to individuals, that would be quite unreasonable!
I also miss any reference to the Soul in the list, which seems to me to be a most essential part of being alive - if a creature has no Soul, even if it does everything on the list, how could it possibly be considered to be alive?"
I also miss any reference to the Soul in the list, which seems to me to be a most essential part of being alive - if a creature has no Soul, even if it does everything on the list, how could it possibly be considered to be alive?"
Senator Salixa of the Silver Forests of Remunzia » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:06 pm
"If this is about individuals, are droids not part of this cycle? Arguably they consume electrical power or fuel and they can grow by adding new components. Clearly they respond to stimuli and adapt to their environment. Not many droids reproduce, but they can and do operate factories producing more droids. Finally, don't they maintain a homoeostasis with their environment by regulating their temperatures?"
The senator had been slow to respond and it was clear from her tone of voice that rather than asking this herself, she was reading from a datapad. As it turned out, though the senator knew some of this topic, she was not an expert in the field and she was relying on other people to help her with the arguments.
"It seems to me we should look at this from a species perspective in this case - droids do not maintain homoeostasis as a species, because they merely consume and destroy all around them, rather than forming a harmonious balance as we find in nature. I would argue that any species that destroys its environment breaks the ecological homoeostasis and thereby seeks to end the conditions by which it is alive."
Clear from her voice, that last part was her own.
The senator had been slow to respond and it was clear from her tone of voice that rather than asking this herself, she was reading from a datapad. As it turned out, though the senator knew some of this topic, she was not an expert in the field and she was relying on other people to help her with the arguments.
"It seems to me we should look at this from a species perspective in this case - droids do not maintain homoeostasis as a species, because they merely consume and destroy all around them, rather than forming a harmonious balance as we find in nature. I would argue that any species that destroys its environment breaks the ecological homoeostasis and thereby seeks to end the conditions by which it is alive."
Clear from her voice, that last part was her own.
Fecta Legin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:04 pm
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Fecta Legin - PC
"I have some doubts about the soul. As far we know, plants does not have a soul, but I consider them to be alive.
Also I do not think that droids are a species alone, just like bacteria are not a species alone. There are many different kind of bacteria working in different ways, and the same goes for droids. The arguement that a being must maintain an ecological homoeostasis is also something I do not agree with: There are a lot of bacterial diseases which eventually destroy their own environment, while I do consider bacteria to be alive as well. And still when bacteria are not alive I am not of opinion that a living species who destroys its environmental homoeostasis will not be alive, let me give you an example of our own planet:
A long time ago, there was a island with 3 kinds of animals. Small, medium and large sized animals. The large animals did eat the medium animals, who did eat the small animals. The large animals however were to good in hunting the medium animals, and ending up eating all of them. The large animals then starve to dead as they could not hunt the small animals down. nowadays, only the small animals live on the island. The large animals did not maintain an ecological homoeostasis, but where pretty much alive if you asks me.
Therefore, I think the homoeostasis should be internal only.
An idea is to add a level of 'being alive', where one is only 100% alive when the encounter fulfils all the rules we set up during all the propositions."
Also I do not think that droids are a species alone, just like bacteria are not a species alone. There are many different kind of bacteria working in different ways, and the same goes for droids. The arguement that a being must maintain an ecological homoeostasis is also something I do not agree with: There are a lot of bacterial diseases which eventually destroy their own environment, while I do consider bacteria to be alive as well. And still when bacteria are not alive I am not of opinion that a living species who destroys its environmental homoeostasis will not be alive, let me give you an example of our own planet:
A long time ago, there was a island with 3 kinds of animals. Small, medium and large sized animals. The large animals did eat the medium animals, who did eat the small animals. The large animals however were to good in hunting the medium animals, and ending up eating all of them. The large animals then starve to dead as they could not hunt the small animals down. nowadays, only the small animals live on the island. The large animals did not maintain an ecological homoeostasis, but where pretty much alive if you asks me.
Therefore, I think the homoeostasis should be internal only.
An idea is to add a level of 'being alive', where one is only 100% alive when the encounter fulfils all the rules we set up during all the propositions."