proposal: an Astrian combat style
Dragonmaster352
Elmer
Brend
Mercury
Chriz
proposal: an Astrian combat style
Dragonmaster352 » Mon May 27, 2013 6:11 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
I felt a bit limited by existing combat styles so I decided to make one of my own, so here's the style.
I'll admit from the start I shamelessly made it for my Jedi. I would like tips, evaluation and possible solutions to balance issues (if there are any). If you have questions feel free to ask.
I'll admit from the start I shamelessly made it for my Jedi. I would like tips, evaluation and possible solutions to balance issues (if there are any). If you have questions feel free to ask.
Elmer » Mon May 27, 2013 9:28 pm
I like the idea, but I miss the connection between water and long hilt. I prefer if you either base the style on water, or on the use of the range of your weapon, but that's my opinion, maybe others think differently about this.
I think the idea of fluid draw is nice: using the first round to gain an advantage somehow, but the way it is noted now it is a rather useless manoeuvre IMO. You get a bonus on a DCA check, but the first round is designed to be a 'weak' round. So nobody would take an offensive DCA, as your attack is to weak on two other rings anyway, so nobody takes a defensive DCA as the attack of the opponent is to weak.
The effect of Raindrop Tidal Wave is conflicting. You basically make a piercing attack and by doing so you get a slashing bonus... If this was a DCA it should be denied.
I see what you try to achieve with Serene Stream, but at this moment it is a little ambiguous written for me. You might say that when you take a defensive DCA and are not going off balance, you can claim the defensive advantage action. Making that you get the advantage action almost always whenever you take a defensive DCA. I presume that you wanted that you only get the advantage action when you would go off-balance, but prevented this with a defensive DCA. Maybe this is ambiguous to me only, that wouldn't be the first time :)
Maybe you can look a little more into how you can use the flow of battle in your advantage, because at this moment I still miss that in your style. It might be good to play a battle (in you head for example) and think of what situations you can use in your advantage. I think this style would be great to open your options in combat. So when you pick this style, you go for flexibility and more options during combat. But maybe your idea is different, it's your style after all. ^_^
Oh and it is not that obvious that you made the style for Nathan, it's okay to abuse Nathans capabilities more with this style IMO. Just as I did with my combat style for Trigiel ^_^
I think the idea of fluid draw is nice: using the first round to gain an advantage somehow, but the way it is noted now it is a rather useless manoeuvre IMO. You get a bonus on a DCA check, but the first round is designed to be a 'weak' round. So nobody would take an offensive DCA, as your attack is to weak on two other rings anyway, so nobody takes a defensive DCA as the attack of the opponent is to weak.
The effect of Raindrop Tidal Wave is conflicting. You basically make a piercing attack and by doing so you get a slashing bonus... If this was a DCA it should be denied.
I see what you try to achieve with Serene Stream, but at this moment it is a little ambiguous written for me. You might say that when you take a defensive DCA and are not going off balance, you can claim the defensive advantage action. Making that you get the advantage action almost always whenever you take a defensive DCA. I presume that you wanted that you only get the advantage action when you would go off-balance, but prevented this with a defensive DCA. Maybe this is ambiguous to me only, that wouldn't be the first time :)
Maybe you can look a little more into how you can use the flow of battle in your advantage, because at this moment I still miss that in your style. It might be good to play a battle (in you head for example) and think of what situations you can use in your advantage. I think this style would be great to open your options in combat. So when you pick this style, you go for flexibility and more options during combat. But maybe your idea is different, it's your style after all. ^_^
Oh and it is not that obvious that you made the style for Nathan, it's okay to abuse Nathans capabilities more with this style IMO. Just as I did with my combat style for Trigiel ^_^
Dragonmaster352 » Mon May 27, 2013 10:21 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
You have a few fair points, but allow me to elaborate a bit.
Fluid draw: I thought a bonus on a check was better than blatantly getting a +2 on the outer ring, I thought it would be to powerful. And like I said it was made for my jedi who has a high outer offence I counted the possibility to get the opponent of balance above average.
Raindrop Tidal Wave: as the description says it needs a strength check. The way I pictured it was that there was a lot of power behind it. That would make it nearly impossible to deflect or block, which leads to it being on the outer ring.
Serene Stream: that is exactly what it says if you ask me.
I get that connecting the style with water is a bit difficult and may even be a bit far fetched, I'll wait what other people have to say before changing anything.
Fluid draw: I thought a bonus on a check was better than blatantly getting a +2 on the outer ring, I thought it would be to powerful. And like I said it was made for my jedi who has a high outer offence I counted the possibility to get the opponent of balance above average.
Raindrop Tidal Wave: as the description says it needs a strength check. The way I pictured it was that there was a lot of power behind it. That would make it nearly impossible to deflect or block, which leads to it being on the outer ring.
Serene Stream: that is exactly what it says if you ask me.
I get that connecting the style with water is a bit difficult and may even be a bit far fetched, I'll wait what other people have to say before changing anything.
Brend » Tue May 28, 2013 5:50 pm
I haven't had time to look indepth at the style, but I will present my short remarks and questions here, so you know my first impressions. If you answer the questions fast-ish (that is: tonight or tomorrow morning), I can have an in-depth look tomorrow.
(PS. I have added a work in progress block, and put a NODATA tag on the style page, to prevent the wiki from picking up the style as valid.)
Phew... That was more than I expected. For me the main question is: What is the actual philosophy behind the style? Because as it stands now, you say 'water' but I read 'putting dots where my long blade+long hilt lacks'. If you can answer with a philosophy (and more than 'water' :P) I think you're well on your way to finishing your style.
(PS. For what it's worth, me Remco and Elmer use Notes: 2012-12-08 regularly when designing styles.)
(PS. I have added a work in progress block, and put a NODATA tag on the style page, to prevent the wiki from picking up the style as valid.)
- Do not mix attributes and combat styles! Because we do not want to introduce a combat-attribute, we have decided to explicitly not bind combat styles (or manoeuvres) to attributes. This means, no attribute-based prerequisites, and not dictated checks in manoeuvres.
- Is this style intended to be a saber-only style, or a style that can be used with any bladed weapon with a long hilt? (Taken from the fluff of its origins, I would surmise the second). If it is a saber-only style: Tier 1 styles start out with 9 dots, if it is a bladed-weapon style, they have 8.
- I completely get how a water-inspired style does both hard and fluid motions: water can do both as well. However, I don't see this philosophy in the dots and manoeuvres. The base offense dots (0/1/3) are basically just countering the focus of the Long Blade (3/1/0), and the base defence dots (2/0/2) stack up very well with the long handle (2/1/0) to create a strong dodge, and remedy the weak deflect. This seems to be very cherry-picked on the exact weapon type... Is this style intended to counter the weaknesses of the long blade+long hilt, or is the style intended to epitomize the 'water' philosophy of going with the flow when possible, and hitting hard where necessary?
- The prerequiste 'Long Hilt' is very limitting, allowing only Long Blade, Regular Blade and Long and Regular saber staff setups. Is this intended?
- @Fluid Draw: You get a -2/-2/-2 in the first round of combat, so any DCAs there will have great difficulty affecting your enemy. Furthermore, you put strong limitations on the DCA: offensive, outer ring only. I do not see the use of this manoeuvre -- most round 1 actions are advantage actions because the opponent won't be able to hit you anyway.
- @Raindrop Tidal Wave: I love the name. But: No attribute checks! Also, a 'strong' attack does not mean 'slashing'. I propose not to give a +1 slashing on a succesful Strength check, but to actually do something with the weapons range or the fact that you thrust instead of slash.
- @Serene Stream: This manoeuvre is very strong, being able to take both a DCA and an Advantage action with a single check allows you to convert your temporary defence (total of +2) into a continuous defense (of total +3). The condition of 'perform a DCA that prevents you from going off-balance' is not that difficult to fulfill, as the opponents goal will most likely be to bring you off-balance... I must think more on this before I can give an argumented response, but my gut says that this manoeuvre basically puts the style into Tier 2.
Phew... That was more than I expected. For me the main question is: What is the actual philosophy behind the style? Because as it stands now, you say 'water' but I read 'putting dots where my long blade+long hilt lacks'. If you can answer with a philosophy (and more than 'water' :P) I think you're well on your way to finishing your style.
(PS. For what it's worth, me Remco and Elmer use Notes: 2012-12-08 regularly when designing styles.)
Elmer » Tue May 28, 2013 8:01 pm
Also, you said that you felt yourself limited by the current styles, what is it that makes you feel limited, or what do you miss? Than we can help to make the style better fitting to your needs.
Dragonmaster352 » Tue May 28, 2013 8:15 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
I would like to point out there is no page that states rules/regulations for designing combat styles. I didn't know mixing combat styles and attributes was a no go. Same goes for specified checks.
I had a slight problem with the fact that only four styles are compatible with a long blade. That kinda influenced me, so yeah you have a point on the offence dots. The defence dots I can explain: water flows around obstacles, in other words it 'dodges' them. And you can bounce a rock of a surface of water, basically the water 'deflects' the rock. (I know a bit of a long shot but it kinda makes sense, right?)
Fluid Draw: The idea is to immediately take control of the battle by forcing the opponent to go on the defence.
Raindrop Tidal Wave: again didn't know. Will rethink.
Serene Stream: fair point, will rethink.
All in all both you and elmer make valid points, I will think on what I want with this style and make changes accordingly. I will post it here when the changes have been made.
I had a slight problem with the fact that only four styles are compatible with a long blade. That kinda influenced me, so yeah you have a point on the offence dots. The defence dots I can explain: water flows around obstacles, in other words it 'dodges' them. And you can bounce a rock of a surface of water, basically the water 'deflects' the rock. (I know a bit of a long shot but it kinda makes sense, right?)
Fluid Draw: The idea is to immediately take control of the battle by forcing the opponent to go on the defence.
Raindrop Tidal Wave: again didn't know. Will rethink.
Serene Stream: fair point, will rethink.
All in all both you and elmer make valid points, I will think on what I want with this style and make changes accordingly. I will post it here when the changes have been made.
Brend » Tue May 28, 2013 11:26 pm
Dragonmaster352 wrote:I would like to point out there is no page that states rules/regulations for designing combat styles. I didn't know mixing combat styles and attributes was a no go. Same goes for specified checks.
I agree. We should really have a few of those 'how things are designed' pages or guides. For now asking around works though :)
Dragonmaster352 wrote:I had a slight problem with the fact that only four styles are compatible with a long blade.
Only four? That's half of the styles, you funny joker; that's half of the First Tier lightsaber styles :P
Dragonmaster352 wrote:Fluid Draw: The idea is to immediately take control of the battle by forcing the opponent to go on the defence.
But... Nobody is going to be impressed with your single-ring boost in the first round. You're basically just cancelling a single -2 from the normal -2/-2/-2 penlaty for the first round attack. 1 Ring is no threat, so the other is probably not going on the defensive. (And if he needs to, the fight is basically over in round 2 anyway.)
I look forward to your renewed version!
Dragonmaster352 » Wed May 29, 2013 2:20 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
I have rewritten the style I hope this is better.
You would have a point if those styles where all first tier styles, but that's just it, their not. Two of those are second tier styles. The two first tier styles are already known by my jedi and the only one I can choose without having to change my sabre (which I refuse to do) is Niman.
Brend wrote:Only four? That's half of the styles, you funny joker; that's half of the First Tier lightsaber styles :P
You would have a point if those styles where all first tier styles, but that's just it, their not. Two of those are second tier styles. The two first tier styles are already known by my jedi and the only one I can choose without having to change my sabre (which I refuse to do) is Niman.
Brend » Wed May 29, 2013 5:06 pm
As I am writing this post I am looking at the new and improved version of Kawa no Michi. I'll write down my thoughts immediately, and order and make sense of them afterwards. If anything is unclear, or out of order, do not hesitate to call it out for clarification.
Anyway, prepare for a trademark Brend-writes-long-posts post :P
Both the usage limitation and the base dots make a lot more sense to me now. This is clearly a sword-based style, and with only 8 dots spread in the base the style joins the ranks of Paraan Talim and Suus Mahna as a style used to emulate a certain weapon class. The symmetry of both offence and defence is very neat as well.
With only a single dot and a limitation on the DCA's bonus Sweeping currents is a tad underpowered right now. Compare with Hawk-Bat Swoop. I propose adding a +1 to cutting, and adding a minor limitation on the DCA: "When advancing on your opponent, you get a +2 on your check for an offensive DCA or advantage action."
Raindrop Tidal Wave's theme is clear. You start out with a raindrop, and it becomes a tidal wave (i.e., pierce, than slash). It has a weird combo effect with other styles right now: it is possible to start with the pierce, and switch to another style where you would then get the +1. I think that cross-style bonusses should be reserved for Tier 2 or better. I propose to do something along the lines of "When using no action besides attacking, you gain an additional +1 to Slashing, above and beyond the base +2 for this Special Manoeuvre."
Or alternatively we could try to go for a more fluid approach (though I have no idea what others think of this): "If you used Raindrop Tidal Wave in the previous round, and you use it again in this round, you gain an additional +1 to Slashing. Furthermore, every further consecutive use of Raindrop Tidal Wave gives you a cumulative +1 Slashing, -1 Piercing to a maximum of +2 Slashin, -2 Piercing. If you break the sequence, the Raindrop Tidal Wave modifiers are lost at the end of the round." This allows you to slowly shift your dots, like a spring shower turning into a heavy monsoon.
This manoeuvre gives you awesome flexibility... It basically gives you half a DCA without a check, and still allows you to do whatever else. Still, it only gives a +2 at most, so I don't really see a balancing problem with it. There is however the issue of the DCAs that we stopped from splitting -- before the lightsaber championship we allowed a DCA's +2 bonus to split over two rings. But this had the unfortunate side-effect of being able to perfectly counterbalance the opponents offensive. I'm a bit afraid that this manoeuvre will do just that, especially since you can combine it with a normal DCA to put +2 and +1 wherever needed.
The feeling fits very well: Serene Stream allows you to follow the flow. I'm unsure how this can be achieved without cherrypicking your defence. We could try removing the +1 Dodging, which weakens the whole manoeuvre, but that might be the price of perfectly adapting defence. (a +1 in the right place is worht more than a +2 in the wrong place in my opinion).
I would like a second opinion on Serene Stream.
It occurs to me that the style is very wide right now. It has no prerequisites, and it allows all sabers that are not daggers. And it allows non-saber bladed weapons that are not daggers (so vibroblades work well). I think that the prerequisite should at least be 'Jedi', as this seems to me to be a Jedi adaptation of the old Kawa no Michi from Stellaria. Right now, everyone is capable of learning this style... (And that is not really logical, as any style requires some adaptation to work with a lightsaber)
I had no problem with limiting the style to Long Handle's to be honest, as that gave it some personality, and as you said, there are other styles that offer options for other saber types.
You might also consider making this a lightsaber-only style, and adding the ninth dot to blocking, to balance the style out as a true fluid blade style. (So, all in all I propose to put 'Lightsaber with Long Handle' in usage limitation and 'Jedi' in prerequisites)
I feel good about the philosophy and the overall theme and lines, and look forward to your remarks, insight and rewrites. (And I would also like a second opinion from someone else ^_^)
Anyway, prepare for a trademark Brend-writes-long-posts post :P
Overvall
Both the usage limitation and the base dots make a lot more sense to me now. This is clearly a sword-based style, and with only 8 dots spread in the base the style joins the ranks of Paraan Talim and Suus Mahna as a style used to emulate a certain weapon class. The symmetry of both offence and defence is very neat as well.
Sweeping currents
With only a single dot and a limitation on the DCA's bonus Sweeping currents is a tad underpowered right now. Compare with Hawk-Bat Swoop. I propose adding a +1 to cutting, and adding a minor limitation on the DCA: "When advancing on your opponent, you get a +2 on your check for an offensive DCA or advantage action."
Raindrop Tidal Wave
Raindrop Tidal Wave's theme is clear. You start out with a raindrop, and it becomes a tidal wave (i.e., pierce, than slash). It has a weird combo effect with other styles right now: it is possible to start with the pierce, and switch to another style where you would then get the +1. I think that cross-style bonusses should be reserved for Tier 2 or better. I propose to do something along the lines of "When using no action besides attacking, you gain an additional +1 to Slashing, above and beyond the base +2 for this Special Manoeuvre."
Or alternatively we could try to go for a more fluid approach (though I have no idea what others think of this): "If you used Raindrop Tidal Wave in the previous round, and you use it again in this round, you gain an additional +1 to Slashing. Furthermore, every further consecutive use of Raindrop Tidal Wave gives you a cumulative +1 Slashing, -1 Piercing to a maximum of +2 Slashin, -2 Piercing. If you break the sequence, the Raindrop Tidal Wave modifiers are lost at the end of the round." This allows you to slowly shift your dots, like a spring shower turning into a heavy monsoon.
Serene Stream
This manoeuvre gives you awesome flexibility... It basically gives you half a DCA without a check, and still allows you to do whatever else. Still, it only gives a +2 at most, so I don't really see a balancing problem with it. There is however the issue of the DCAs that we stopped from splitting -- before the lightsaber championship we allowed a DCA's +2 bonus to split over two rings. But this had the unfortunate side-effect of being able to perfectly counterbalance the opponents offensive. I'm a bit afraid that this manoeuvre will do just that, especially since you can combine it with a normal DCA to put +2 and +1 wherever needed.
The feeling fits very well: Serene Stream allows you to follow the flow. I'm unsure how this can be achieved without cherrypicking your defence. We could try removing the +1 Dodging, which weakens the whole manoeuvre, but that might be the price of perfectly adapting defence. (a +1 in the right place is worht more than a +2 in the wrong place in my opinion).
I would like a second opinion on Serene Stream.
Prerequisites
It occurs to me that the style is very wide right now. It has no prerequisites, and it allows all sabers that are not daggers. And it allows non-saber bladed weapons that are not daggers (so vibroblades work well). I think that the prerequisite should at least be 'Jedi', as this seems to me to be a Jedi adaptation of the old Kawa no Michi from Stellaria. Right now, everyone is capable of learning this style... (And that is not really logical, as any style requires some adaptation to work with a lightsaber)
I had no problem with limiting the style to Long Handle's to be honest, as that gave it some personality, and as you said, there are other styles that offer options for other saber types.
You might also consider making this a lightsaber-only style, and adding the ninth dot to blocking, to balance the style out as a true fluid blade style. (So, all in all I propose to put 'Lightsaber with Long Handle' in usage limitation and 'Jedi' in prerequisites)
I feel good about the philosophy and the overall theme and lines, and look forward to your remarks, insight and rewrites. (And I would also like a second opinion from someone else ^_^)
Elmer » Wed May 29, 2013 7:56 pm
About the amount of available styles, I believe you are allowed to use these styles with a long hilt:
tier 1:
ataru,
shii-cho
soresu
suus mana
tier 2:
djem so
niman
six styles in total.
About the proposed style:
I really liked Brend's idea for Raindrop Tidal Wave: to switch your dots over time. This is something we don't have yet, so it really adds something and I think this fits the style excellently.
Serene Stream:
I was thinking somewhere in the lines of: when taking an advantage action, you may apply +1 dot to a defence ring of your choice. Or maybe when taking an offensive DCA.
tier 1:
ataru,
shii-cho
soresu
suus mana
tier 2:
djem so
niman
six styles in total.
About the proposed style:
I really liked Brend's idea for Raindrop Tidal Wave: to switch your dots over time. This is something we don't have yet, so it really adds something and I think this fits the style excellently.
Serene Stream:
I was thinking somewhere in the lines of: when taking an advantage action, you may apply +1 dot to a defence ring of your choice. Or maybe when taking an offensive DCA.
Dragonmaster352 » Fri May 31, 2013 11:12 am
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
I would like to hear from Mercury before I start making adjustments.
Mercury » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:14 pm
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Mercury - Storyteller
I like the idea of the style and I think its distant enough from the existing styles to warrant its own type.
The base statistics are okay in my book - there are 8 points which is appropriate for the level and usability, so nothing to complain there. Can't really say much more on it than that.
Sweeping Current leaves me with a question on the bonus. I get what the +2 on offensive DCA is, but I don't think it would apply in all cases - it'd depend on the exact move. My suggestion would be rewording to be more in line with the Trakata 'pass the blade' manoeuvre which requires actively using the special manoeuvre.
This clarifies that you are using the special manoeuvre both in the rule text and during use in combat to claim the bonus and makes sure you can't use it if you are using peculiar circumstances to get a bonus on DCA rather than the style itself.
I do not think this manoeuvre needs extra points as the DCA bonus can be widely used - more widely than Hawk-Bat Swoop.
Raindrop Tidal Wave is a great name and I like the effect, but I think it shouldn't be cross-style. Maybe add an additional limitation to the bonus of "If you use this style again next turn".
I don't think making it build up over time is a good idea, but Brends suggestion of combining it with a penalty would work in theory. I think its too complex that way, but your mileage may vary.
I like Serene Stream, but I think we should drop the base +1 Dodge for balance reasons. This also better represents the idea of the bonus imho, but that's just a gut feeling I can't put arguments behind.
Finally, I think there can be an added prerequisite of some sort to fit with the philosophy to really I cannot think of any so maybe we skip that.
In general, this looks fine and can be approved of soon, I imagine.
The base statistics are okay in my book - there are 8 points which is appropriate for the level and usability, so nothing to complain there. Can't really say much more on it than that.
Sweeping Current leaves me with a question on the bonus. I get what the +2 on offensive DCA is, but I don't think it would apply in all cases - it'd depend on the exact move. My suggestion would be rewording to be more in line with the Trakata 'pass the blade' manoeuvre which requires actively using the special manoeuvre.
This clarifies that you are using the special manoeuvre both in the rule text and during use in combat to claim the bonus and makes sure you can't use it if you are using peculiar circumstances to get a bonus on DCA rather than the style itself.
I do not think this manoeuvre needs extra points as the DCA bonus can be widely used - more widely than Hawk-Bat Swoop.
Raindrop Tidal Wave is a great name and I like the effect, but I think it shouldn't be cross-style. Maybe add an additional limitation to the bonus of "If you use this style again next turn".
I don't think making it build up over time is a good idea, but Brends suggestion of combining it with a penalty would work in theory. I think its too complex that way, but your mileage may vary.
I like Serene Stream, but I think we should drop the base +1 Dodge for balance reasons. This also better represents the idea of the bonus imho, but that's just a gut feeling I can't put arguments behind.
Finally, I think there can be an added prerequisite of some sort to fit with the philosophy to really I cannot think of any so maybe we skip that.
In general, this looks fine and can be approved of soon, I imagine.
Dragonmaster352 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:27 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
Did some remodelling based on suggestions.
Brend » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:10 am
The style has increased with a single dot, and has been made lightsaber-only.
Sweeping Current has a clear condition right now (like Hawk Bat Swoop), Raindrop Tidal Wave is no longer capable of bestowing a cross-style bonus, and Serene Stream's flexibility is neatly balanced.
I have no further comments, or objections. Therefore, I deem the style approved. If there are no objections voiced, I will officially approve the style in the coming weekend.
Sweeping Current has a clear condition right now (like Hawk Bat Swoop), Raindrop Tidal Wave is no longer capable of bestowing a cross-style bonus, and Serene Stream's flexibility is neatly balanced.
I have no further comments, or objections. Therefore, I deem the style approved. If there are no objections voiced, I will officially approve the style in the coming weekend.
Elmer » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:26 am
looks good to me. Though some changes are not done they way I would have done it, but this is not my saber-style :) I think it is balanced now.
I have also fixed two typos:
I have one question though: How/when is an Astrian sword style developed to a lightsaber style? Astrians don't have lightsabers.
I have also fixed two typos:
first sentence: 'Is a combatstyles' to 'is one of the lightsaber Combat Styles'
Sweeping current: removed a '.' as the sentence ended with two of them
I have one question though: How/when is an Astrian sword style developed to a lightsaber style? Astrians don't have lightsabers.
Brend » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:39 am
Elmer wrote:I have one question though: How/when is an Astrian sword style developed to a lightsaber style? Astrians don't have lightsabers.
Though I am not the designer of the style, I would like to hazard a guess.
First, I'm going to go with the possibly false assumption of 'Astrians don't have lightsabers.' In that case, I think that, like most originally non-saber styles, this style was adapted by a Jedi Master, and then passed down.
Just like Paraan Talim was passed down from master to student (possibly across the times of chaos). However, the Kawa no Michi style seems to be a bit younger due to what I could find about the style and the Gender Wars, so I would think that it has been adapted during or after the times of chaos (maybe even after the founding of Union, which would make the style very young indeed). In that case the description would have to be 'A lightsaber style rooted in an Astrian sword style based on water.'
However, there is a flipside.
Your question can be asked of any of the styles rooted in a PC culture. Suus Mahna is the same: it requires someone with the ability to use Telepathy or Telekinesis, both of which are Jedi Force Powers. This sounds a bit strange, as the style even claims that it is 'developed by the Hiocan based on their telepathic and telekinetic powers'. However, if you think about it for a while, it actually makes a lot of sense.
Jedi are not the only 3-circle operatives. During the times of chaos, it is very likely that any world with potential Jedi would have seen a growth in powerful individuals that did not receive formal Jedi training, but still acquired powers beyond those of a normal person.
These force-sensitive individuals might end up in conflicts. They will pick up a weapon to defend themselves, to fight for what they believe in, or just because they feel like it. Most likely, they will win the first few fights just by sheer power. But if, for some reason, such a person would start to adhere a certain philosophy they would probably adopt the already existing fighting styles from their culture.
Some of them might have used actual swords, which would explain the high-powered sword-based style Kawa no Michi; some of them might have eschewed weapons and focused on their seemingly innate ability to control thought and matter, which would explain the Suus Mahna style; and some of them might have picked up a bow, and that would explain the Arkari-Renja style.
Then there is the question of who 'has lightsabers', which I think is not relevant once you accept that a lightsaber is nothing but an upgraded sword (a very good and very powerful upgraded sword, but a sword nonetheless). In my opinion any weapon will do to develop a Jedi combat style, as long as the style is practised by sufficiently powerful individuals.
Ugh. So long... Well at least it not only answers the question, bur highlights the very likely fact that there are 3-circle people outside of the Jedi organisation, but inside the Union (especially with force sensitive races).
Mercury » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:16 pm
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Mercury - Storyteller
I think the addition of "or advantage action" to Sweeping Current is a tad on the powerful side. I'd suggest changing that back and then approving it, though its not a huge imbalance and if others think the current version is okay, I'm good with it.
Brend » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:45 pm
Mercury wrote:I think the addition of "or advantage action" to Sweeping Current is a tad on the powerful side.
It's true that Ataru's Hawk Bat Swoop condition is more difficult to satisfy.
Chriz » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:51 pm
I agree, you can only use it about once every two rounds if you can fly at all in the area that you are in. It is either removing the 'or advantage action' or removing 1 of the standard dots on the maneuvre I think.
Player of the Praetorian Empire
Dragonmaster352 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:03 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
I have removed the 'or advantage action' part.
I'm keeping the way it became a lightsaber only style unspecified, at least for now. If it needs to be worked out to be accepted I will look into it, but otherwise I'll go with Brend's 'Soon'.
I'm keeping the way it became a lightsaber only style unspecified, at least for now. If it needs to be worked out to be accepted I will look into it, but otherwise I'll go with Brend's 'Soon'.
Brend » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:07 am
The way it became a lightsaber style doesn't have to be worked out to be accepted. Though it is something to think about.
I proclaim this style: Approved
You can put it in the rules namespace now! Please pay attention to the edits I made to get everything working in your design namespace (that is, the
I proclaim this style: Approved
You can put it in the rules namespace now! Please pay attention to the edits I made to get everything working in your design namespace (that is, the
entry title and the ~~NODATA~~; both need to be removed; I'll check the page after you put it on the wiki so if you miss something of my edits I'll fix it for you ^_^).
Dragonmaster352 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:13 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
I have moved the page to the rules page. It shows up in the correct place in the navigation box, but it doesn't show up on the combat styles page.
Did I do something wrong? I saw the list was generated but I have no knowledge of any of that programming wizardry most people here practice.
Did I do something wrong? I saw the list was generated but I have no knowledge of any of that programming wizardry most people here practice.
Chriz » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:40 pm
Cache was not updated yet. I did it for you, it is listed now :)
Player of the Praetorian Empire
Dragonmaster352 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:32 pm
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Dragonmaster352 - Storyteller
YAY