Fwurg

[Brend]

Stuiter and I devised a new technology based on the Hiocan's desire for not having a fleet but still contributing to the war effort. The idea is that once this tech has been approved OOC, the Hiocans come up with a proposal IC to one or more factions.

There is one problem that I haven't completely worked out yet. Anyway, the technology and the associated project (cost calculation at bottom of post):

Generalized Fleet Logistics

By creating uniformity in the required supplies of your fleets the demands on supply lines are lessened. Together with increased efficiency in docking and shipment processing, this can be used to greatly enhance the supply infrastructure of the military.

This technology adds an alternate option to the Fleet Zone. Instead of acting as the home port of a military fleet, the zone can act as the 'supply base' of a military fleet. A military fleet supported by a supply base uses the supply base's location as its home port for the purpose of calculating upkeep.

However, the supplies must still reach the military fleet. The military fleet's supplies must be shipped from the home port to the supply base, and then from the supply base to the fleet itself. This extended supply line can consist of two trade fleets, one for each leg of the journey, or one trade fleet routed from the home port to the supply base and from the supply base to the military fleet itself.

This technology can explicitly be used to operate the supply line of another faction. This requires both factions to have this technology. The faction controlling the supply base must provide the supply fleet from the supply base to the military fleet. Either faction can cancel the supply base's support at any turn by noting this in their turn report.

This technology allows the construction of the Forward Supply Depot upgrade for Fleet Zones.

Cost: 82200 / X
Prerequisites: Parallel Logistics Management

Forward Supply Depot

The construction of additional docking arrays improves the base's availability and logistics handling.

This upgrade to the Fleet Zone allows it to act as a supply base in addition to its other capacities. For example, a Fleet Zone supporting a military fleet can start acting as a supply base for a allied fleet. Another example is a Fleet Zone that acts as a supply base for two allied fleets.

Cost: 2000 (1000 with Natural Life, price is affected by natural flight)
Prerequisites: Generalized Fleet Logistics

Yes, you read it correctly. The technology costs a whopping 82.2k .

The cost was determined as follows:

• The highest upkeep is (50 + 200 * 3) = 650 , based on an operational radius of 3
• You save 650 - (50 + 200 * 1) = 400 by having a supply base at the edge of the operational radius
• 52 * 400 * 4 players - 1000 for the required second fleet zone = 82200

Personally, I think this is a bit steep...

I think that most people do not keep their fleets combat-ready all the year, so I would propose to use a fraction of the cost, based on the expected savings instead of basing this on the maximum savings.

In which case I propose the following reasoning:

• Defensive upkeep is (25 + 100 * 3) = 325 , based on an operational radius of 3
• You save 325- (25 + 100 * 1) = 200 by having a supply base at the edge of the operational radius
• 16 * 200 * 4 players - 1000 for the required second fleet zone = 11800

I think that sounds reasonable enough, but I might be biased because I really want this technology for future endeavours in which fleets might be far away (in which case the upkeep reduction becomes very useful).

So, I appeal to you people to help me figure out a reasonable cost -- and other comments and criticism of course!

[RemcoSwenker]

I think this tech is a good idea as it seems like a very logical thing to have and to exist.

do I see it correctly that with the upgrade that you can basically support two allied fleets?

You can't just build a fleet zone to support another fleet if you so desire? and not have a fleet of your own.

[Brend]

do I see it correctly that with the upgrade that you can basically support two allied fleets?

Yes. But then you give up your Fleet Zone's normal home port power.

You can't just build a fleet zone to support another fleet if you so desire? and not have a fleet of your own.

You can. But with the upgrade you can use an already existing fleet zone; this saves you a zone.

The idea of the upgrade is that it gives your Fleet Zone an extra 'slot' that can only be used as a supply base. So normally a Fleet Zone has the function (home port). With the tech it can be a (home port OR supply base). With the tech and the upgrade it can be (home port OR supply base) + (supply base).

This gives greater freedom to people that want their own military fleet and also want to help their allies. And people that do not want a military fleet can support two allies.

[Gerben]

Very cool idea, I like this very much. The ~12k cost also seems reasonable as 88k is clearly too much.

[Elmer]

I think the traditional way of calculating the cost and ending up with the 82K is not suitable for here as we do not generally put our fleets in combat for a year.

So the new calculation seems much more logical to me.

And still I think the operation radius is a big large. It costs at most 2.5 to get from one side of the Union to the other side, so in general a Union member has about 1.5 to 2.0 distance it safes. In the current situation a Union member cannot safe 3 travel distance with this tech.

[Brend]

Its true that the members in the Union can fly around their fleets all nilly-willy. But the rules have been balanced for a radius of ~3 , so that's what I'm sticking with. Besides, you can save 3 of travel by moving of the Bozzy Spine and into uncharted territory. Where, arguably, the most use for military fleets is.

[Elmer]

As long there are no fleet zones outside the union, you cannot safe the 3 , as the last into uncharted space still has to be paid. That's why I said in the current situation, as it does not seems that anybody will start expeditions or fleet zones outside the Union soon. And as far I know we don't have real allies outside the Union who are willing to use this tech to support our fleets.

So I think in practice this tech will only be used to safe the costs to travel within the Union, which is at most 2.5 from Wrarrbo to the ACA

If I still fail to make my point, we should talk about it tonight, that would be faster :)

[Brend]

So I think in practice this tech will only be used to safe the costs to travel within the Union, which is at most 2.5 from Wrarrbo to the ACA

That depends on the deployment of Outposts. Also, my new calculation is based in Defensive instead of Combat-Ready, which is already a 50% discount basically...

I propose we round the price to 12000 / 6 .

[Gerben]

Looks fine by me, 12000 is a fair number.

[Elmer]

In ideal situations 12000 might actually still be a little low. But I think the rarity this technology will actually be used and the political implications this technology might bring will make that the price is suitable.

[Brend]

If there are no objections, I will put this tech on the wiki in the weekend of 2013-9-21.

Note: The intention is for the Hiocan's to propose this technology, as Stuiter came up with the original idea.

[Brend]

This technology has been added to the wiki:

• Generalized Fleet Logistics
• Forward Supply Depot

[Brend]

Chriz and I have spotted a false assumption in this technology: the proposal assumed Natural Flight reduces the cost of zone upgrades, but it doesn't. We have fixed the wiki to reflect this.