Fwurg

[Fedor]

My proposal is to have a tech that unlocks a project that allows you to use the existing technologies to terraform planets in and .

Technology: Megadome Cities

This technology allows the construction of gigantic domes in which cities and industry can be built which allow for greater regulation of climate via conventional means that have previously been impossible.


This tech will allow you to make a single project that you perform on a planet. This project will allow atmosphere III through I as well as natural life on a planet in or orbit. This will be a single large project that allows all of the terraformation. The costs for this would be as much as what the terraformation would cost normally but then in . After this normal costs for terraformation would still have to be paid if you want to the benefits of terraformation. The cost depends on the amount of zones on a planet. Terraforming atmosphere 3 through 1 as well as natural life on a planet will have a combined cost of 3250 and 475 per zone. The project costs 3250 and 475 per zone of a planet.

It would have the same minimum number of turns as a single terraformation project, 1 turn for a small moon, 10 turns for a large planet, etc.

This should be a prohibitive enough cost that it would not be preferable to make a system without goldilocks now, but can be used later one once other planets are fully terraformed and you want to incorporate some of your worse planets. This will still not yet allow you to terraform oceans, because of course oceans don't fit in domes. That could be done with a different project.

For the technology itself I was thinking that it would cost either 7500 or 10 000 , which is in the same line as the costs of the other technologies for terraformation. This tech would allow terraformation of multiple levels, but on itself it provides no other benefits.

I decided not to split the technology up into different projects for atmosphere III, atmosphere II, etc. This is because I feel that you would never want to just apply atmosphere III or atmopshere II and would always want to go straight for atmosphere I, this is unlike normal terraformation where you might already have atmosphere II, but on a hot planet you could never before have any higher than atmosphere IV.

Other methods to balance this project:

• Make any zones with a megadome have an additional upkeep in the form of , say 5 per zone.
• Split the technology into one for and one for , requiring something like to complete the cold orbit project (heating) and to complete the hot orbit project (air conditioners).

Any criticism is appreciated, especially other peoples opinion of the power to terraform and .

[Brend]

Clarification request: Do I understand it correctly that you want to mirror the total cost in for each terraformation project on the planet?

[Fedor]

I want to mirror the combined total cost that terraforming atmospheres III, II, I and natural life would take. For terraformation these costs are in and and for this project the same costs would be in and . I have updated the original post to reflect this.

[Elmer]

I like the idea and I think it is a good way of terraforming other orbits. I am in favour adding an upkeep, in one form or another. Some additional sounds logical.

What would happen if the upkeep is not delivered? will the advantages be gone for that time, will they drop one by one? Will the entire dome collapse?

I would say, make it different projects, maybe like this:
With the megadome cities project, you are allowed to terraform and as well. So first you make the megadomes project, and then you can make the terraformation projects.

[Brend]

I think that requiring the whole megadome payment up front is a bit much.

I would set it up as follows:

• (tech) Megadome Cities
  This technology unlocks the 'Megadome Construction' special project.
  • (project) Megadome Cities
    This project allows the application of Surface Heating and Atmospheric Purification to the world. The Megadome requires 5 per zone on the world. Failure to provide the megadome with will result in all zones on the world being browned out.
    Cost: 1500 and 150 per zone
• (tech) Hot Orbit Megadome Adaption
  This technology allows upgrading the Megadome on a world to be capable of holding Natural Life. This technology allows you to apply the Biogenesis, Hyperactive Stromatolites and Photosynthetic Rebalancing terraformation projects to a world with Megadome Cities by simultaneously upgrading the Megadome. The initiation research cost of the terraformation is doubled, and the project's cost per zone is increased by an amount of equal to the required per zone. For example, Biogenesis would cost 2000 and 200 +200 per zone.
  (prerequisites: Megadome Cities)
  
• (tech) Cold Orbit Megadome Adaption
  This technology allows upgrading the Megadome on a world to be capable of holding Natural Life. The rest of the technology works the same as Hot Orbit Megadome Adaption but for .
  (prerequisites: Megadome Cities)

This allows a good split between startup cost (the first two terraformation steps need to be paid up front for Atmospheres IV and III), and has a split between and to allow some specialisation.

I have not yet done anything with prices, as I feel the structure of the technologies and projects to be more important at this moment.

[Mercury]

I think effectively allowing the terraformation to Atmosphere I with natural life on a hot or cold orbit planet should not be priced to be in balance with the terraformation of a goldilocks orbit. I think it should be more expensive. This appears to be the direction this is being taken anyway, so that is excellent!

For flavour, I would suggest looking at a one-zone-at-a-time mechanic, since few people would cover an entire planet in a single megadome.

[Gerben]

very cool.. me approves.

[Chriz]

I believe that the name is not really covering your intentions since it is not really about cities, it is about covering the whole planet in one large dome or multiple adjacent domes.

Furthermore I think that you should only have to pay superstructure modules for the starting atmospheres, natural life and maybe later oceans. This will be about 50% additional costs for terraformation in cold and hot orbit.

I am not sure about doing it on a per zone basis. I think it should be a project for the whole planet.

[Fedor]

For flavour, I would suggest looking at a one-zone-at-a-time mechanic, since few people would cover an entire planet in a single megadome.

You should be able to fluff it as building quite a lot of different very big domes on a planet as well. I think if you have to build it one-zone-at-a-time then the whole process will make the dome building take far too long (because of completion limit), the decision to fluff the building as multiple smaller domes would indeed be one that I think most people would take.


I like Brends subdivision of first building a generic upgrade with upfront investment for the atmosphere IV and III and then specific ones for cold and hot orbits.

As for Chriz, I don't really see a reason to only pay extra superstructure modules for the starting atmospheres, and not the later ones. I don't really have a mathematically sound plan for the costs, so I just put them for doubling the cost on every stage. I think its a bad idea to unevenly distribute the costs, as that just complicates the matter.

Taking this all into account I would disregard my initial proposal and instead use Brends idea.

[Mercury]

I think if you have to build it one-zone-at-a-time then the whole process will make the dome building take far too long (because of completion limit).

I think this is desirable. Terraforming a planet outside the goldilocks area should be difficult, expensive and take a long time.

The technology should operate on the scale of outposts / colonies I think.

[Brend]

I think this is desirable. Terraforming a planet outside the goldilocks area should be difficult, expensive and take a long time.

I have been trying to come up with a good per-zone system, and the main problem I keep encountering is the complexity of the bookkeeping involved. I agree that it should be difficult (expensive is already covered), but OOC difficulty to maintain a large amount of data is not the same as IC difficulty.

The only remotely usable solution I found is to do something with a 'Domed Zone' zone upgrade, but than we would need to bookkeeping all environment data per zone, instead of per world and that is going to be an lot of work, and I do mean a lot.

There is another option would: terraform the whole planet, but still require the 'Domed Cities' zone upgrade to actually get the benefits -- unfortunately this goes against the idea of 'doming, then terraforming'. With this method you would want to terraform at least some things first (which is completely ridiculous), and then start plopping down domes on all developed zones to actually get some benefit. First doming than terraforming makes no sense, since you would only be waiting extra turns before your terraform benefits to kick in.


So while I agree that a per-zone solution would be cool, I don't see how we can do it. At least, not without getting really annoying bookkeeping or completely disregarding the IC order you would do this in.

I'm looking forward to other proposals... That is, if anyone can think of a way to do this.

[Chriz]

The technology should operate on the scale of outposts / colonies I think.

Are you talking about tax efficiency or time efficiency?

Terraformation is already slower and more expensive than outposts...

[Mercury]

I mostly believe that domed cities should not become a staple that everyone has in all their hot / cold orbits because it is convenient and "the thing to do". I also believe individual zones would be desirable from a fluff point of view. I recognise the technical difficulty of course.

Thinking about this matter more deeply, I think we need to consider a deeper issue here than this particular tech (which I have no conceptual problem with, I merely caution against making it too cheap, fast or convenient).

On this deeper, separate topic, I will be making a new thread so as not to derail this particular technology any further.

[Brend]

I think one of the problems of 'per zone' is the cherry-picking. It won't be a noticable slowdown, but it will allow people to skip over the choice of 'do I invest an enormous amount, or don't I', and just change only the three zones they actually want to specialize with a corporation.

[Brend]

After some brainstorming with Mercury we came up with a new way to approach these technologies. I will post a revamped implementation soon(tm).

(No really, I just need to find some time somewhere in the coming weeks; I have a vacation coming up :P)

[Brend]

((Edit: Extra prequisites added. Additions in green.))

Based on discussions (both in band and out of band) I have reworked the idea. The basis for this redesign is the realization that the main point of these technologies is the unlocking the option of specialisation for zones not in . A further realization was that if one is capable of creating megadomes in both and , the next logical step would be the specialization of outposts.

The rest of this post is laid out as follows: First, I will introduce the new technology structure. This is followed by a short rationale for the prices of the technologies. I conclude the post with a few remarks on the prerequisites and the level of high-endness I hope to invoke.

I look forward to hearing opinions on the projects. Especially on the prerequisites and pricing, but also on alternative takes on the idea.

Structure

Cold Orbit Megadome Adaption

Careful control of a city's albedo, combined with light and heat funneling and biological temperature control agents allows the formation of a domed microclimate shielded from the extreme cold that is normal for worlds in cold orbits.

This technology allows the construction of the Megadome Cities zone upgrade on worlds. Construction of Megadome Cities on a requires 500 + 650 + 450 .

Cost: 8000 / 8
Prerequisites: Astroengineering, Solar Radiation Management, Biogenesis

Hot Orbit Megadome Adaption

The application of large-scale heat shielding combined with algea-based gas filtering allows the creation of a stable microclimate protected from both incoming radiation, heat and the toxic gasses natural to hot orbit worlds.

This technology allows the construction of the Megadome Cities zone upgrade on worlds. Construction of Megadome Cities on a requires 500 + 450 + 650 .

Cost: 8000 / 8
Prerequisites: Astroengineering, Atmospheric Conditioning, Biogenesis

Adaptive Megadome Regulation

The use of specialised two-component regulatory systems allows the formation of a pseudo-stable microclimate in a megadome regardless of external conditions.

This technology allows the construction of the Megadome Cities zone upgrade on outposts. Construction of Megadome Cities on an outpost requires 1500 + 650 + 650 .

Cost: 10000 / 10
Prerequisites: Cold Orbit Megadome Adaption, Hot Orbit Megadome Adaption, Network Centric Colonization, Photosynthetic Rebalancing

Megadome Cities

The construction of an enormous dome over every city in the zone, and connecting these domes to each other to allow the free movement of goods and people is an impressive feat. Even more so when the outsides of the dome are battered by liquid methane tsunami's.

The Megadome Cities zone upgrade provides a +40 production bonus to the zone, and allows specialisation with a corporation. This upgrade prevents the world's natural atmospheric and climate bonuses from applying. If the world features an ocean, the ocean's bonus is still available. Of special note are the bonuses for a water ocean: they are calculated as if the zone has Atmosphere I.

Note that this upgrade does not change the orbit type of the world, so can still not be grown outside of (unless the Frozen Ocean special was applied).

The Megadome Cities zone upgrade increases a zone's power consumption with +5 .

Cost ( ): 500 + 450 + 650
Cost ( ): 500 + 650 + 450
Cost ( Outpost ): 1500 + 650 + 650
Prerequisites: One of Cold Orbit Megadome Adaption, Hot Orbit Megadome Adaption, Adaptive Megadome Adaption

Microclimate Integration

The integration of multiple microclimates requires nimble balancing and regulatory operations. The result is a macroclimate in a bottle.

This technology unlocks the Megadome Microclimate Interconnectivity Regulators special project. The project can be used to connect all the megadomes on a world, and create a planetary wide ecosystem within the interconnected domes.

Cost: 3000 / 6
Prerequisites: Adaptive Megadome Regulation

Megadome Microclimate Interconnectivity Regulators

Transportation of goods and people between the domes was always a possibility. Now we also transport depressions, rain fronts and mist banks

This special project applies to a whole world. It changes the world's ecosystem. This project can only be used on worlds where every zone has the Megadome Cities upgrade.

The world gains Atmosphere I and Natural Life, and the associated benefits like allowing production and increased population growth. Megadome Cities on the world no longer prevent atmospheric and climate bonuses from applying, but the +40 bonus granted by the Megadome Cities is replaced with the +40 bonus granted by the world's Atmosphere I. This project does not create climates.

Cost: 1000 + 200 + 200
Prerequisites: Microclimate Integration

Pricing

The pricing of these projects was not easy. Everything hinges on the price of the Megadome Cities upgrade itself. The prices for and were determined by first adding up all the costs for terraforming of Atmosphere IV through I and Natural Life for a single zone, yielding 550 . This amount was then doubled by add another 550 . A slight variation based on the orbit type seemed in order to diverge the options, and to reflect the difference between the extremes.

Specializing an outpost zone is a very interesting option, but also one that doubles the +100 production bonus on an outpost... So I added +1000 , +100 and +100 (for a total additional value of 2000 ).

The pricing of the technologies was even worse, as there is little to no comparison material available for 'terraforms a single zone'. I started out with adding up all Initiation Research Costs one would need to do for a small moon, this ends up being 4000 . This sounded like a nice figure, so I started with that as a basis. Given that most of the costs are in the zone upgrade, I applied a mitigation factor of 2.

The outpost technology is priced slightly higher at 5000 to reflect the difficulty of developing a megadome design that works for any environment, and again with a mitigation factor of 2, this comes down to 10000 .

The Microclimate Integration and Megadome Microclimate Interconnectivity Regulators are priced based on almost nothing. I looked at the benefits they provide, and those are mostly +1% population growth, and the option to grow . Since most likely people aren't interested in Megadoming their whole planet, this options seems correctly placed at a mitigation factor of 1 and a project price equivalent of 3000 (which is ~1000 more than the Genealogical Archives, which sounds reasonable since this technologies doesn't actually create an extra +1%).

Discussion

These technologies are intended as high-end options, and as such, their prices should reflect this. However, some things are to be considered:

We might feel that the prerequisites too easy. Right now, they are only 2 technologies deep in the Terraformation tree, and a single technology deep into the Astroengineering tree. If we wish to increase the end-game feel of this cluster of options, we might want to look into requiring an additional Biogenesis prerequisite for the Hot and Cold adaption, and an additional Photosynthetic Rebalancing prerequisite for the Adaptive Megadome Regulation technology.

Another option to increase high-endness would be to put another technology between these technologies and Astroengineering. Something in the outpost area, or something somehow related to megadomes.

The Oceans of the original world remain, because I feel that having a domed city does not prevent you from sending out large vehciles to scoop up molten metal, or liquid methane. I have noted the special interaction between water oceans and the Megadome Cities upgrade, so the Frozen Oceans special has a little added coolness.

In the final project, I assume that the definition of Habitable extends the 'if it has Natural Life' clause of the Frozen Ocean special to include any source of Natural Life. I had some trouble understanding the growing conditions, and posed a game question about it, where I also propose to generalize the Frozen Ocean clause.

The final project allows climates, but the climate terraformation technologies only apply to goldilocks. I think this is an excellent hook for a small tech that allows scraping the bottom of productivity by allowing the terraformation of climates (most likely with an additional cost in ).

[Fedor]

This seems like a good idea to me.

[Gerben]

Very nice :P

[Mercury]

I really like this proposal.

I think adding requirements to give this a more end-game feel makes sense, though I can accept it without this.

Climates can be a later technology if anyone ever gets that far and fully bubbles up a world with interconnected domes ^_^

[Elmer]

It looks cool. I think it wouldn't hurt to add biogenesis and Photosynthetic Rebalancing. The balance between taxes costs and special products costs seems good to me as well. The costs are hard to determine for me, but I believe you have done an excellent job here.

[Brend]

I'll upgrade the prerequisites to a higher level.

Edit: Done. See Proposal post.

[Brend]

Unless there are objections, I will be putting this on the wiki in the weekend of 2013-01-11.

[Brend]

I have put the technologies on the wiki:

• Cold Orbit Megadome Adaption
• Hot Orbit Megadome Adaption
• Adaptive Megadome Regulation
• Megadome Cities
• Microclimate Integration
• Megadome Microclimate Interconnectivity Regulators

There is one thing I would like to propose as a change to these technologies: allow them to be used like Terraformation technologies can be used. The terraformation technologies can be used to improve the system of another faction, and as these technologies are an extension of terraformation, I think these technologies would benefit from that same ability.

[Mercury]

Seconded

[Brend]

I no one objects, I will do this in the next weekend.